Re: CDS, Injections and Dairy Cows

Sounds like you found some good info. I would probably try to give the CDS more often that just twice a day, however, I see the idea that you are going for with the feeding schedule you found from APC.

I don't know much about calves/cows, however; to me, straw is bedding, hay is food. Whatever the cakes are, can they be made to be suckled down as he is not into chewing his food at this point? Maybe Fourfingerz will chime in here again?!

Sorry I don't have any experience with hand raising calves. That's a dairy farming thing (farmer wants the milk) - I just leave mom and calf together nursing as she see's fit.

I wouldn't worry about cleaning him out rectally - just get some CDS into him and see what happens.

I would feed him as he's willing to take it - that's his fluids. Don't worry about solid foods yet.

I would separate the scours meds and oral CDS - or try and find the ingredients list. They through vitamin C in a lot of stuff (our horse minerals has it in there) Rectally it wouldn't be as important - I would think?

If this works out - you will be looking a stunned farmer I bet. Ask him his success rate for scours.

Oh I will give it him more than twice was just indicating what time of day not how often Just got back from vets, they really are nice, they were shut but I still managed to get a big syringe free of charge from him. Im going to try giving him his dose rectally this time, I will write up how it went when I get back. I will sit down and write a schedule which I will share with you. I plan to use the larger syringe to gently rinse him inside with body temperature water before I put the CDS in there.

The straw is bedding but the other little calves are eating it even though cake (pellets) are available. I will give him some hay or bashed up pellets to try after I have gotten lots of milk into him.

Speak soon

Thanks Fourfingerz you caught me just before I left to see him. I agree about the dairy farmer thing, it horrifies me how this all actually works, and they are a small farm (50 ish cows) I will take all your points on board

Ok back again and a bit of a failure but a lot learned. Fourfingerz I know you said not to bother with the flush but I did, I thought for the first time I would. I managed to get nearly 1/2 liter of luke warm water inside and then stopped, I didnt want to put too much in as I am inexperienced. I gave him a little massage and stood him up while supporting him, after ten seconds he emptied it all back out. That went no problem at all and I was confident this would be easy. Doing everything the same except with the CDS this time and I couldnt even get 20ml inside, he pushed it out every time. Im convinced its the temperature, as the flush was body temp and the CDS is fridge temp. I tryed to warm the syringe in my hands but he still wouldnt take it. Im convinced that if I mix the CDS and body temp water on site then wasting no time repeat the procedure it will work.

Do you guys agree about the temp? I think I would do the same if you put cold water up my bum!

If I waste no time when mixing will the CDS stay in solution in the warm water long enough for me to do this?

drgreen,

Yes, cold water Contracts .... warm water expands, and relaxes.

When giving an enema to a person, it's always used with warm water, so as not to stimulate a contraction (peristalsis)

I think its no different in your situation.

Clint

Try mixing some at home and see if you can smell it. If you can smell it then it is there.

I have a baby bottle that the husband put a sprayer on for my horse's sarcoid. It is huge, covers most of his chest and one side of his neck and under one leg. I let the bottle come to room temperature. Usually I take it out of the fridge when getting up in the morning and it is usually 1 hour before I need to spray him. He is way, big time more tolerant than straight out of the fridge!

I would think the enema would have the same feel!

Thanks Clint, it makes perfect sense now you have said it.

Im not winning dosing Calvin rectally I made some up next to him, with warm water this time, he took the 60ml all in one go but when I withdrew it was only a few seconds before he passed it. Not one to be deterred I came home to prepare more and tried again. Again he did the same, accepted it all but passed it shortly after. Any suggestions please.

I had a good talk with the farmer and he told me a huge list of medication that they have tried on calvin, the vet has previously been involved as well. He is happy for me to continue but when asked what he thought his survival rate was he said just 20%, as it was too long before they realised how bad he was. He has been not able to walk properly for a week and a half now.

I feel the viruses can be overcome by the MMS or CDS but I am just not managing to get it inside him sufficiently. I will return again very soon to give him CDS orally but I really feel rectally is the way to go if I can just keep it inside him. Its strange that I got half a liter(500ml) in there and stood him up before it came out yet now I cant even get 60 ml to stay in. surely its not the CDS? I may try half the amount of CDS and see how I fare

thanks for reading, I know ultimately the choices are mine to make but its REALLY nice to share the experience with people who are willing to share their thoughts and opinions

Damian

Damian,

Sorry for not following your previous posts... but, you said you did, or did not try injecting CDS into him ? If not, I was/am unclear why you haven't tried that.

And when you are doing enemas.... (and again, forgive me for not seeing it)... are you laying your animal on the ground, on its side, and letting the water fall in by gravity ? Cause if its forced in, it can & will come out just as fast.... but, warm solution going in, say 8 oz at a time, and wait 30 seconds, etc..... may be more effective. As this is how an enema is to be given to a real person... the goal is NOT to stimulate peristalsis (contractions) of the colon, but rather let it sit in as long as possible to be absorbed.

I'm not a vet.... but again, I feel the same goes for our 4 legged friends.



Clint

Hi Clint I have not injected him with CDS due to confusion on how to prepare it(to inject). I have seen Andreas Kalcker make it in a saline solution which I thought could then be injected into the muscle or fat. I thought all I had to do was get the correct saline solution to make the CDS. However I have read on another thread that saline will deactivate the CDS, and now I have more info saying to make an Isotonic solution, add the CDS to this and raise PH accordingly with unactivated MMS. No quantities were given regarding this last preparation and I am unsure how to proceed. The situation is becoming so dire with the calf involved that I would love to know how to prepare an injectable solution but have so much conflicting information. Thanks for the enema info