Re: CDS, Injections and Dairy Cows

I have no experience with the slime. Keeping food in is a good sign. Just keep it (CDS) up as long as you can.

Yes the farmer will not understand compassionate care - he can't afford to (both the money and his available time doesn't allow it) Modern farming is factory work. Here in British Columbia small dairy farms are a thing of the past. In this valley there used to be 23 dairy farms now there’s 1 . Milk now comes from huge factory farms with 1000's of cows. And of course by the time their done with it - it's not work drinking

If your seeing progress with this treatment hold off on injections. Read Micheal's account of injecting himself - it's painful!! Calvin will end up not wanting to see you if it hurts every time. If he's going down hill then - do what it takes!

Hey guys iv just got back...again he's worth every second, I am used to the routine as I have a 17 year old dog called jake who is falling to pieces, I am going to start another thread about him as I have been using the CDS for all sorts of different problems, he really appreciates the CDS as he has a lot of fungal stuff going on. Back to Calvin, the diarrhea is back, not lots but its there, more slime again, it almost looks like his stools are trying to solidify so time will tell. Farmer told me again he thinks im wasting my time, I told him if it has worked on 800 cows elsewhere its worth trying here, he agreed and said he was happy for me continue. People find it hard to break away from age old routines of buying commercial pharmaceuticals, why would this new MMS stuff work!!! we will see. Calvin is getting harassed big time by biting flies, his skin is very dry in places from the attacks and in one small place they have broken the skin and I saw tiny drops of blood. I had seen a sore red spot on his knee when I first started to treat him and I took a neat solution of 3000ppm CDS and sprayed the affected area, it has cleared up a treat in only a day, not red or sore anymore. After such good results on myself in the past with neat CDS and also on Calvin I decided to spray him quite liberally in the affected areas and rub it in well (no where near his eyes, and making sure he did not breath any in directly) I know this will help heal his sore broken skin but Im mentioning it because the flies would no longer bite him after it was applied. previously they would land and bury themselves through his fur to get to his skin, now they land and immediately take off, or land and stay on the surface not attempting to bite! I watched him for some time to observe. Not sure why but as long as he is getting some relief and at the same time some healing, I am happy

I am working this evening for a few hours but will visit him again later

Also the farmer has given me a bottle with a big teat on the end, Calvin can now finish his dose in around ten seconds instead of me syringing it into his mouth for ten minutes.

That's VERY interesting regarding the flies - healing the bites would be expected - but repelling them!!
I will try some MMS on the horses. CDS theoretically should off gas the chlorine dioxide leaving just distilled water, MMS would leave a small residue - but who knows?

If it's easier (and quicker) with the teat bottle - maybe start to up the cc's of CDS - observing his reaction.

Have you got a farm store nearby? They should have some powder to mix up for scours , I believe it helps restore the electrolytic balance. We phone our Vet for advice fairly frequently which he gives out free of charge .

Might wanna try CDS on the horses. I first used MMS on Fella's chest and neck and the hair bleached to orange! CDS I tried later (as it didn't sting him) and now his hair seems to be coming in for the winter a more normal color (bay). Will try the CDS solution on my guys! See what happens.

Thank you for the update on Calvin! Hope he continues to improve. How is his appetite and ability or willingness to stand?

Odd question for you. What do you mean by "neat solution" of 3000ppm?

Thanks!

Hey guys, I finished a little early tonight and have already been to see the little guy. He struggles to feed from the teat bottle, I think he is getting a little too much at a time, it is a big teat, he is very malnourished so is probably a little too eager. You can hear each mouthfull go down his throat and then he pulls his head away and does a little burp. He is clever and starting to go for my fingers instead of the teat, he will take the teat and his dose if I don't let him smell it first otherwise he is getting fussy, more 'with it' He kept motioning as if trying to get up so I stood over him and put him on his feet. I had to steady him but eventually he was holding himself up, he cant walk yet. I upped his dose this time from 4cc to 5.5cc diluted in 1/2 pint of water. I will go back once more tonight and again at 6am. I will speak to our vet about something for scours after I have checked with farmer, he might already have some or have him on it. I also want to make note of the 3 viruses the farmer says he has.

Horsefeathers, when I said 'Neat CDS 3000ppm' I meant undiluted CDS without adding the water you usually would to drink it down with. I have a few different strengths and was just clarifying which one I had used.

I will continue the fly spray experiments tomorrow, it may be that when the CDS has all gassed out the flies start to bite again, I will stay longer try and figure it out. Sprayed directly onto the flies it doesn't seem to bother them much. I might have to catch some do some proper experiments

Thank you for your reply.

Sounds like Calvin is doing better. It is good to hear that he still has desire!

The husband asks if he is getting any food. Some powdered calf mix that mixes with water. Is the farmer feeding him at all or given up on the affair? It is certainly time! I would think food would be fed or at least offered more often than if he was healthy, even if it needed to be in smaller amounts than normal.

Hey, eager to feed is good - not feeding is bad. His ability to stand is very encouraging - small steps!!

You're doing a great job!! and you're paying attention ( the flies) . Thanks for sharing.

My internet is playing up

I found out that Calvin IS on anti scouring meds, it says it replaces lost electrolytes and other stuff.

I have a feeling that the flies are attracted to his smell, not that he smells really bad ( i think he smells lovely overall) but when I spray the CDS on him it seems to confuse them. When I return there are always a few flies on him but no where near as many, they seemed to be swarming around him before the spray.

There is a sack of powdered milk formula that is made up to feed him, I suspect also that he could do with more of this. He wants to feed every time I visit which is usually every two hours. Is the shared opinion that if he wants to feed I should let him, even with his diarrhea? I just want to feed him all the time.

He is slightly perkier than before I started him on CDS but nothing really to write home about. I know it is only the third day but I am starting to think administering rectally maybe a good idea. With him already having diarrhea I cant tell how the dose I am giving is affecting him. I would normally watch out for the diarrhea and drop the dose. If he wasnt this bad I would be happier to go slower but its hard to tell the progress we are making if any. I tried to put him on his feet again but he couldn't do it

If anyone has an opinion on a feeding schedule that includes his scouring meds in a morning, doses of CDS orally and then his milk on top I would appreciate it. There may be something in the scouring powder that is cancelling out the CDS? I like the idea of administering the CDS rectally but the general opinion is to do 2 enemas with clean warm water first to clean up in there, and then put the same dose as you would orally in 2 - 4oz of water (amount of water for humans) and let the walls of the colon absorb most if not all of it. I just dont have any equipment for doing this procedure on a cow, I could squirt some diluted CDS in there no problem but wouldn't have the equipment to go about cleaning him out first? It just seems like a good way to administer if absorbtion through the stomach is 'possibly' not cutting it? If he didnt have so much diarrhea I would mix some MMS up to give orally as well.

Just got this quote from a website talking about electrolytes for calves : 'You can feed calves milk or replacer even if they have scours. They can still digest and get benefit from milk. Because the electrolytes can interfere with the digestion of milk, it's best to alternate milk feedings with electrolyte feedings.

Calvin is fed the anti scouring powder each morning at half eight, I think it is meant to be given 3 times a day but I will check packet. Taking this information into account, I am unsure where the CDS doses would fit in, he needs lost electrlytes upto 3 times daily, CDS every 2 hours and as much milk as I can fit around this........ oh dear!

Hmmmmm. I would probably feed him as often as he is willing! There is not much solids in milk so firming up may be a problem. But let him eat as much as he is willing would be my guess. Probably I would give the CDS first. If you have the time maybe wait 15 - 20 minutes or so and then feed him. If not, then go ahead and feed him anyway. He needs all the nourishment he can get. At this age was he on any hay or any solids food at all? If so, is he willing to take any if it is in reach?

Rectal may be a good idea. If you can't clean him out I would try it anyway. What is there to lose?

CDS is not gonna cause diarrhea, so don't let that part worry you.
It may be good to not do CDS when he receive the scouring powder but, most certainly, feed him if he will eat!

You may have to write out a schedule on paper so you can see and figure out how to works it all out. I have done this and is a big help to clear up a confusing schedule.

Just got some more info so am going to use that and your advice Horsefeathers, I might try CDS on an evening and into night and milk + electrlytes in day. I will write it all down as you suggest so I can figure it all out. From what I have read about scours it can be really serious and that he is wanting to feed and perking up are really good signs, I wish he would walk. Im going to get on this properly and sort out a schedule

'At the APC Calf Research Unit (and previously at the University of Tennessee), we generally look at
each calf twice daily for any sign of disease. When a calf begins to develop scours, we will begin
feeding 2 liters of commercial electrolytes at "lunch", which an additional feeding offered at
approximately 12:00 noon. We keep calves on milk replacer (fed at 8:00 a.m. and 4:30 p.m.). By
offering an additional feeding, calves will consume an extra 2 liters of fluid which is very important
when they're losing water. If calves are severely dehydrated, we will offer an additional feeding of
electrolytes at about 6:00 p.m. We also work closely with our vet to determine when to begin IV
electrolyte therapy if necessary. Because calves can lose large amounts of water, we don't hesitate to
offer an additional 4 liters of electrolytes per day to scouring calves. That's in addition to the 4 liters
of milk replacer and ad libitum water.'

PS he is surrounded by straw but isnt interested, the other calves his age are eating straw and cake. I wil try him with some but am going to concentrate on milk and fluids.