PLEASURE TO BE A MEMBER ON THIS FORUM- REQUEST FOR HELP TO PROMOTE MMS

David.. i too support your move.... keep it up.... many idea is sharing here for you to move forward..... use it... it does not cost a lot and you can open up your influence very soon....

Looks like things are moving faster than I would imagine, guess in the end its the old question or headline of was he pushed or did he jump, thanks for all the encouragement and support, I do not mind going point by the way and I think Tanzania could be just the place we can take on Goliath on a more even playing ground.

Have already started my research for permits and licenses to do this all very legitimately, I know it is 100% possible, have politicians, doctors and simple voters and common people behind me so lets do it.

Game plan is joining the classes beginning in May and doing theory and practical for 2 weeks, here I come Santo Domingo you could say:0).

I am going to try and raise funds through friends and Samaritans for my air tickets from Dar es Salaam/Tanzania and for all the other costs to attend the Genesis II Church training to get a real good insight into MMS1 and MMS2.

After completing the classes I intend to return to Tanzania and register an NGO (Non Governmental Organization) again on a shoestring budget, I presume with friends support and start curing and advertising/promoting MMS and in general, try and get the Tanzania Union Government and the Zanzibar Government of Revolution to officially test and approve MMS so that we can make a stand against all the skeptics and big Parma etc.....

Poor Goliath!!!! No I do not feel sorry for him....

Hopefully I can get further support and info whilst attending classes on how to go ahead with this plan of "David against Goliath" or rather right against wrong, historically right always wins against wrong.

Sincerely appreciate all the guidance and encouragement from you all so far.

God is Great......

Have currently put a smart young bro of mine on the case of following up and researching all permits, licenses and testing procedures and costs involved with expected duration to get approval of MMS in Tanzania, of course this whole venture will not be a simple down hill, we expect politicians and Goliath to give a good fight, once I have a report back will do the same for Zanzibar and push this thing officially through at both ends and see how far we get with it, if any forum members have ideas of fund raising ideas online or otherwise to ease our task, this would be appreciated, currently I am operating with funds out of my shallow pocket.

Thanking you all in advance.........

David, it is awesome to see you are staying on track and going forward with this. The plan to take Jim’s seminar in May is perfect, that is something you really need.

In thinking about how you will implement this in Tanzania, it seems you have a choice between categorizing your activity as business or religion. If you go with business, then you are under the total jurisdiction of the government. They control economic activity through licensing and other laws. There is probably no way to argue you have a fundamental Constitutional right to be in a business selling MMS. So if the governmental authorities want to shut you down, for example because someone with influence orders them to, it is easier for them to do than if you had some fundamental constitutional right at stake.

On the other hand, you could try to fall within the protection of freedom of religion as Jim has been recommending. I did some quick research on your system of government there. You have a constitutional republic that looks similar to what we have in the US. Here is some key info I found at this site www.africa.com/tanzania/report :

Freedom of religion is generally respected in Tanzania, and relations between the various faiths are mainly peaceful. .... The constitution guarantees freedoms of assembly and association.

So it seems you have freedom of religion there not unlike the rest of the free world. In creating the Genesis Church Jim was very wisely aware of the powerful legal protection available to churches because of the fundamental right to freedom of religion. I believe the Catholic Church may be largely responsible for the great protection offered to churches in the free world. It has been said the Catholic Church is more powerful than any single government on earth, and I wonder if they may step in whenever freedom of religion is at stake in such a way that it could create bad legal precedent for their own autonomy.

It seems to me, and I am only speculating because I do not have any private contact with Jim, this may be one of the benefits behind Jim’s efforts to establish Apostolic Succession in his church. From what I have read, shady characters who want legal protection as a “church” also go to the trouble and expense of obtaining Apostolic Succession for their activities. Is it because the Catholic Church steps in to defend whenever a church with “Apostolic Succession” is under legal attack because they can’t afford to have bad precedent?

Now Jim does not have anything to hide or any evil intentions, he is just seeking maximum protection for his church worldwide. When it comes to operating as a church in the US there are two ways to go about it. Most uninformed churches fall into the trap of seeking recognition as nonprofit corporations under the state and federal tax and other laws. Jim has advised everyone this is a mistake because you are voluntarily placing yourself under the jurisdiction of those laws when you do not need to. The wiser way to do this is to create a church as an unincorporated “association” and simply treat it as a church for tax purposes without seeking approval from the tax authorities. This is a proven legal method for obtaining all the same benefits of being a recognized church, but without voluntarily submitting to the laws and authorities.

If you do it the way Jim says, without obtaining licensing and nonprofit status, then the church is still protected directly under Constitutional authority. This appears to be the same approach used by the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is more sophisticated and seeks the greater autonomy available directly from the Constitution rather than all the voluntary licensing traps the other churches fall into.

If you run your operations based solely on donations, like Edwin is doing and like Jim recommends, then you strengthen your position that you are a church and not a business. If you sell your services or products then you are more likely to be categorized as a business activity that does not get the maximum protection that religion gets.

So if you take an approach like Jim recommends, then you probably do not want to get licenses and status as an NGO. I realize you probably are not aware of Jim’s advice in this area David, so that is why I wanted to try and explain it a little. Have you considered these things?

Let me know what your thoughts are. And even if you do not want to follow the path that Jim advises, please do keep us posted on your progress. I just want you to know I am willing to try and help you in figuring out what to do. I graduated from a good law school here in the US but I am not a practicing lawyer. I saw that you do have a Common Law based legal system like we have here in the US.

Your friend,
Michael

Awesome Michael thanks, can use any adivice and guidance you want to give, you my God Father now.

I am not in this for profits, I am happy if I cash in all credits one day in heaven, I am in this for justice and human rights, to prove to the skeptics that for every disease there is a cure in the forest you could say.

I want Goliaths head, I want the weak to have hope and know they are not alone, there is a GOD...

Please just let me know the best set up to win this war........

Should I be basing the set up on Genesis II Church Articles of Association, was planning originally to go as a NON GOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATION (NGO) but perhaps with your legal background you can hit the nail on its head for me and let me know the best way of setting up so that we are in a win win situation and we cannot be closed down by some big shot.

Thanking you well in advance,

David

Hi Michael,

Just as an after thought, the word "church" gets some people suspicious in some cases, would it be possible to set something up based on te Catholic Church or as Jim suggests but use a different word from "church", which already like alienates peoples of other faiths, "church" sounds relirious and christian, not that I have any prejuduces against any religion or church, how about using the word "society" instead but still been able to get the same protection like the Catholic Church.

The Society of Health and Healing could be it, leaving out religious misintepretations.....

Thanking you as always well in advance,

Yours Truly, D....

Hi David,

I think you have your heart in the right place and that is the most important thing of all. I am a praying man myself and although I have excellent training I have learned the hard way not to trust in myself and human wisdom but instead to trust in the Most High God to guide my steps.

The best thing of all would be to create a subdivision of Jim's church, using his church Articles for your legal document. If you do it Jim's way, then when you go to the seminar, Jim could even lay hands on you and you would have apostolic succession. This would give you your strongest protection under freedom of religion.

Then when some foreigner tries to pressure your government into doing something to shut you down, your government will be able to tell them, Sorry, he has a valid church and we can't shut him down because we have freedom of religion here. This is why we need to be careful to give your government what it needs to be able to protect you and tell the foreigners they can't do anything about it.

I think Jim is a smart guy and he has gotten some excellent legal advice from somewhere. Jim has minimized the religious aspect of his organization to the maximum extent it can be done and still get protection under freedom of religion. His Articles allow church members to have whatever beliefs they want, so long as they believe in doing good deeds, and everyone believes in that.

I don't know if it is possible to use the word "society" in place of "church." The problem is, you have got to have the minimum requirements needed to a religion rather than something that is not a religion. Jim is already pushing the limits on this and there is no guarantee he will qualify as a religion in a legal battle. But I do think he has a good chance of winning.

Also, based on the recent FDA crackdown experience here in the US, Jim may well be willing to step in and help you if you do things his way and get into a battle. According to what Jim has said in his newsletters, the FDA showed up with a bunch of men and pressured Danny the owner of the main MMS production facility in the US into issuing a recall of his products.

Danny was fearful and gave in to the recall. Then Jim stepped in and gave Danny $10,000 for legal defense. Danny used it to pay for legal advice on setting up private associations (non religious) so they could keep retail selling MMS. The lawyers also pointed out all the legal violations the FDA committed in doing this, so Danny did not destroy his own equipment like they wanted him to do.

Instead, Danny and the other MMS retailers stayed in business and now they just use the private association gimmick to make their sales. This does give them some legal protection because now they are no longer selling to the "public" but only to members of their associations. It just means that the first time you buy from one of them, you have to pay $5 as a membership fee to join their association prior to the purchase.

The private association approach does not give them all the legal protection they would get as "churches" under freedom of religion. However, for now the FDA has not pursued this any further and they are continuing with their sales. The reason is, under our laws the FDA only has jurisdiction over sales to the "public" not to sales in a private association. Although the only practical difference is the minor inconvenience of having to join their association prior to your first purchase.

If you are helping mostly the poor and you are operating on donations, then it seems to me whether it is called a "church" would not matter much to people who need help. But we can investigate further. I think you would have the best protection as a subdivision of Jim's church and as someone he has bestowed Apostolic Succession on. Let's continue investigating and see where things go.

Michael

Michael;

Your discussion has get me into thinking of setting up NGO (Helping the Poor)... When there is donations, this donation will go into this account legally and can gain more donations from the public because we were able to issue legal receipt for each donation received by establishing a NGO Bank Account. At the same time, we do not mention the donation is frm the used of MMS... nor the NGO is giving out MMS...

Therefore MMS is out from this NGO and is consider giving out for Free by a church without single monetary is involved. As when the happier individuals who used MMS successfully, their donation will be credit into NGO account as just willing donation to support the NGO but not about MMS usage... can this be done in view of Law?

Edwin, I will investigate this further but let me just make some comments off the top of my head to get you thinking. The problem with an NGO is it is probably much like a nonprofit corporation, it is an entity under the total legal control of the governments.

A church will give you all the same benefits, but you will be Constitutionally protected from government control. You can set up a bank account for the church and give people legal receipts for their contributions, if you are in a country that respects freedom of religion. The governments are NOT in control of the churches because the judges will say they are under the protection of the Constitution, therefore the governments cannot tax the churches or control them. This is why churches are tax free in the countries that have freedom of religion.

You and David should both check with your local banks and find out what are the minimum requirements needed to set up a bank account in the name of or for the benefit of a church. I am very familiar with the requirements here in the US for setting up bank accounts for business entities, but I don't have experience with churches however the issues are very similar. A church is just a particular kind of entity. Bank accounts can also be set up in trust for an entity such as a church. In this case the name on the account will be your personal name but legally, so long as you follow the legal formalities, the account will belong to the church.

I need to research a little about Malaysia and about NGOs and I will have more info to give you both. Let me know what you are thinking and what you find out from your bank.

Michael

Thanks Michael;

Will go through with my local bank and give you some feedbacks...