Does chlorine dioxide interact with flouride in drinking water?

Sky wrote: Your concern is noted Bill.

Here is a report with the first pages of a study done for Fort Collins, Colorado water treatment works. It shows they directly mix CLO2 and Fluorosilicic acid to gain the treatment advantages for their purpose (whatever that may be) and if this was dangerous to human health as a poisonous outcome, I am sure this practice would not be allowed.

Link: www.healthdistrict.org/fluoridereport/title.tableofcontents.intro.pdf

I am trying to see if i can find an inorganic chemical reaction indication between ClO2 and H2SiF6 to see the effects and indications. Not a chemist, but this is not a mystery also.

Personally I am glad and grateful I can avoid the fluoridation in my own drinking water....

Thanks but I am not really confident your statement "if this was dangerous to human health as a poisonous outcome, I am sure this practice would not be allowed."

Lets keep plugging away for a definete answer.

Thanks everyone for all the imput so far.

To BILL and Others

Chloryl fluoride

Chloryl fluoride is the chemical compound with the formula ClO2F. It is commonly encountered side-product in reactions of chlorine fluorides with oxygen sources.[1] It is the acyl fluoride of chloric acid.

Preparation
ClO2F was first reported by Schmitz and Schumacheb in 1942, who prepared it by the fluorination of ClO2.[2] The compound is more conveniently prepared by treatment of sodium chlorate and chlorine trifluoride and purified by vacuum fractionation, i.e. selectively condensing this species separately from other products. This species is a gas boiling at -6 C:

6 NaClO3 + 4 ClF3 → 6 ClO2F + 2 Cl2 + 3 O2 + 6 NaF

Structure
In contrast to O2F2, ClO2F is a pyramidal molecule. This structure is predicted by VSEPR. The differing structures reflects the greater tendency of chlorine to exist in positive oxidation states with oxygen and fluorine ligands. The related Cl-O-F compound perchloryl fluoride, ClO3F, is tetrahedral.

References

^ Chrisie, K. O.; Wilson, R. D.; Schack, C. J. "Chloryl fluoride" Inorganic Syntheses, 1986, volume 24, pages 3-5. ISBN 0-471-83441-6
^ Schmitz, H.; Schumacheb, H. J. "Über eine neue Reaktion des Chlordioxyds. Die Bildung einer Verbindung der Formel ClO2F" Zeitschrift für anorganische und allgemeine Chemie 1942, Volume 249, Pages 238 - 244. DOI 10.1002/zaac.19422490302

To BILL

IRRITATING OR CORROSIVE GASES AND VAPORS


LUNG IRRITATION AND DAMAGE: intense exposure (prolonged exposure to irritants or brief exposure to corrosives) causes lung tissue to swell and seep fluid, a condition called chemical pneumonitis; lungs may be damaged enough to cause death. Methyl isocyanate caused
chemical pneumonitis in the Bhopol India tragedy. Chemical pneumonitis survivors may have permanent lung damage with symptoms similar to emphysema and a form of asthma in which airways constrict when exposed to quite low levels of irritating chemicals.

EYE IRRITATION AND DAMAGE: irritating and corrosive gases may cause intense pain and temporary eye damage which can take several weeks to heal. During exposure the eyes are usually tightly shut--which opens the victim up to the hazards of temporary blindness. Direct eye contact with irritants and corrosive liquids or powders can cause (at best) short term irritation and swelling to (worst case) permanent blindness. Quick and correct actions can reduce symptoms and prevent blindness. Prevention is the best approach to prevent eye damage; wear goggles and face shields when handling corrosive materials. However, if contact does occur, wash chemical out of eyes immediately and continue rinsing with a gentle stream of water for 15 minutes.

SKIN IRRITATION AND DAMAGE: Corrosive chemicals cause severe burns which will form scars unless treated properly. Wash contaminated skin with soap and water (or special solvent in several notable cases--bromine, phenol, hydrogen fluoride) immediately.

Irritating chemicals cause a wide range of skin effects including burns, blisters, redness, itching, dryness, cracks (i.e., between fingers), roughness and a variety of skin problems termed dermatitis (skin inflammation). In general irritant effects are not severe, but are at least, annoying and at worst, temporarily or permanently debilitating (i.e., when an irritant effect turns into an allergy).

EXAMPLES OF IRRITATING AND CORROSIVE CHEMICALS:

Gases such as ammonia, chlorine, bromine, ozone, cyanogen chloride, phosgene, arsenic trichloride, nitrogen oxides, sulfur oxides, hydrogen chloride, acrolein, formaldehyde, fluorine,

Liquids and solids such as strong acids, bases, chlorinated solvents (dichloroacetone, methylene chloride), organic bases, organic solvents, detergents, metal salts (chromates, nickel sulfate). See list below.


Acids and anhydrides
Acetic acid, acetic anhydride, acid mixtures, battery fluids, chlorosulphonic acid, chromic acid, chloroacetic acid, dichloroacetic acid, fluoroboric acid, fluorsilicic acid, hydrobromic, hydrochloric, hydrofluoric and hydriodic acids, methacrylic acid, nitric acid, nitrohydrochloric acid, perchloric acid, phenolsulphonic acid, phosphorus pentoxide, propionic acid, selenic acid, spent acids, sulphamic acid, sulphuric acid and oleum (fuming sulphuic acid), sulphurous acid, thioglycolic acid, trichloroacetic acid.

Alkalis
Ammonium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide (caustic potash), quaternary ammonium hydroxides, sodium hydroxide (caustic soda).

Halogens and halogen salts
Aluminum bromide and chloride, ammonium bifluoride and other bifluorides, antimony trichloride, pentachloride and pentafluoride, beryllium chloride, boron trichloride, bromine, chlorine, calcium fluoride, chromic fluoride, chromous fluoride, iron chlorides (ferric chloride, ferrous chloride), fluorine, iodine, lithium chloride, phosphorus oxybromide and oxychloride (phosphoryl bromide and chloride), phosphorus trichloride
and pentachloride, phosphorus sulphochloride (thisphosphoryl chloride), potassium fluroide and bifluoride, potassium hypochlorite, pyrosulphuryl chloride, sodium chlorite, sodium fluoride, sodium hypochlorite, stannic chloride, sulphur chloride, sulphuryl chloride, thionyl chloride, titanium tetrachloride, vanadium dichloride, zinc chloride.

Interhalogen compounds
Bromine trifluoride and pentafluoride, chlorine trifluoride, iodine monochloride.

Organic halides, organic acid halides, esters and salts
Acetyl bromide, allyl chloride and allyl iodide, acrylonitrile monomer, allyl chloroformate, allyl iodide, ammonium thiocyanate, anisoyl chloride, benzyl chloride, benzhydryl bromide (diphenyl methyl bromide), benzoyl chloride, benzyl bromide, butyl acid phosphate, benzyl chloroformate (benzyl chlorocarbonate), chloroacetyl chloride, ethyl chloroformate (ethyl chlorocarbonate), dibromoethane (ethylene bromide). 1,2-dichloroethane (ethylene chloride), ethylene oxide, fumaryl chloride, ethyl chloroformate (methyl chlorocarbonate), propionyl chloride, iso-propylchloroformate, diisooctyl acid phosphate, p-chlororbenzyl chloride, chloropropionyl chloride, sodium tluorosilicate.

Chlorosilanes
Allyl trichlorosilane, amyl trichlorosilane, butyl trichlorophenltrichlorosilane, cyclohexyl trichlorosilane, dichlorophenyl trichlorosilane, diethyl trichlorosilane, diphenyl dichlorosilane, dodecyl trichlorosilane, hexadecyl trichlorosilane, hexyl trichlorosilane, methyl trichlorosilane, nonyl trichlorosilane, octadecyl trichlorosilane, octyl trichlorosilane, phenyl trichlorosilane, trimethyl trichlorosilane, vinyl trichlorosilane.

Miscellaneous corrosive substances
The following corrosive substances are widely used but do not fall into any of the above classes: ammonium sulphide, benzene sulphonyl chloride, benzyl dimethylamine, beryllium nitrate, catechol, chlorinated benzenes and toluenes, chlorobenzaldehyde, chlorocresols, cresols, cyclohexylamine, dibenzylamine, dichlorophenol, diethyl sulphate, diketene, dimethyl sulphate, hexamethylenediamine, hydrazine, hydrogen peroxide, organic peroxides, phenols, soda lime, sodium aluminate, sodium amide, sodium bisulphate, sodium bisulphite, sodium chromate and dichromate, sodium pyrosulphate, sodium hydride, triethyltertramine, tritolyl borate, silver nitrate.
Proprietary mixtures, i.e., cleaning, disinfecting, bleaching, degreasing solids or solutions based on these chemicals are corrosive to a degree dependent upon dilution.


SENSITIZERS (ALLERGENS)

Some chemicals cause allergies; an allergy (or sensitivity) is an abnormal response to low exposure levels of chemicals which don't elicit a similar response in the majority of people. The allergic response can be quite serious. Once an allergy develops it usually does not go away. If the symptoms are serious, the person must not be allowed to work where the chemical is used or generated. Allergic responses vary from life threatening (anaphylactic "bee sting" type reactions which can cause death by asphyxiation within minutes of exposure); to moderate (dermatitis, severe headache, head or chest cold or flu symptoms); to slight (rash, dry skin, itching nose or eyes).

Chemicals which cause skin sensitivities (by class and several examples of each): coal tar and its derivatives (cresol, pyridine, acridine);dyes (including auramine, amido-azo-benzene, aniline black);dye intermediates (acridine and compounds; aniline and compounds); benzidine and compounds (naphthalene and compounds);explosives (fulminate of mercury, picric acid, sodium nitrate);insecticides (many);natural resins (i.e., dammar, japanese lacquer, pine rosin, copal);natural oils (cashew, coconut, cutting, linseed, mustard, tung);photographic developers (hydroquinone, bichromates, pyrogallol);plasticizers (stearic acid, butyl cellosolve stearate, etc.); rubber accelerators and antioxidants (p-toluidine, guanidine);synthetic resins (acrylic, alkyd, epoxy, chlorophenyls);enzymes (proteolytic enzymes, B. subtilis)


CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM (CNS) DEPRESSANTS ANESTHETIC AND NARCOTIC GASES, VAPORS AND LIQUIDS (MOSTLY SOLVENTS)

Anesthetic or narcotic materials depress the central nervous system (CNS, the brain and spinal cord) causing sleepiness, dizziness, drunk behavior, headache and often nausea and vomiting. Many organic solvents, alcohols, ethers, ketones, esters, etc. are CNS depressants. CNS effects generally occur within a few minutes of overexposure and may last quite awhile, until the chemical has been detoxified by the liver.
Chlorinated hydrocarbon solvents (methylene chloride, methyl chloroform, carbon tetrachloride, etc.) have a peculiar and dangerous effect at high exposure levels (inhalation or direct skin contact): they cause changes in heart function (similar to a heart attack) which can cause death in
minutes. The exposure situation is usually use of these materials in a confined area, where extremely high exposure levels can rapidly develop. Deaths in "glue sniffing" may also be due to this type of heart effect.

One of the most dangerous symptoms of overexposure to CNS depressants is inebriation (drunk behavior) because victims are more likely to make mistakes, to fall or trip, and are less likely to follow or hear instructions or see imminent danger. They are dangerous to themselves and others. Watch for signs of inebriation due to overexposure to chemicals, both in your co-workers and yourself. Many chemicals (especially solvents) can enter the body through the skin, and entry by this route is often more toxic than by oral or inhalation routes. (Propylamine is ten times as toxic via skin than via mouth). Some areas of skin are more easily penetrated by chemicals than others: the scrotum is very easily penetrated (which makes contaminated slacks particularly hazardous); the scalp and forehead are quite easily penetrated, and the palm of the hand is the least easily penetrated. OSHA and ACGIH workplace standards regulate permissible air levels of chemicals; if chemicals can also get into the body via skin, then these organizations give them an "S" or "skin" notation, which means that skin contact must be controlled as well. Chemicals denoted "skin" by ACGIH and OSHA are listed in the following table.

SYSTEMIC TOXINS

Systemic toxins damage tissues at sites other than the point of contact. They enter the body through the skin, mouth or lungs, spread via blood, and damage one or more internal organs such as the liver, kidneys, blood forming tissue, reproductive system, brain or nerves. Systemic damage is usually caused by long term exposure (years) to relatively low levels of chemicals, an exposure pattern often found in industry. Short term exposure to high levels of chemicals (acute exposure) is less likely to cause systemic toxic effects.

We learn about systemic toxicity from human experience (e.g., occupational overexposure) and animal research. Some chemicals have many target organs, some just one. The target organ depends on the material and route and pattern of exposure. It is best to treat systemic toxins as possibly harmful to all organs, since the complete toxicity profile is usually not known. Examples:

CHEMICALS THAT AFFECT SEVERAL ORGANS: halogenated hydrocarbons (many); benzene, phenols (brain and bone marrow/blood forming tissue); ionizing radiation (skin, gut, bone marrow, reproductive organs); carbon disulfide (nervous system, heart); methanol, n-hexane, methyl n-butyl ketone (nerves, brain); organophosphorus compounds, tetra-alkyl lead (brain); lead (bone marrow, brain, conceptus); manganese (lungs); cadmium (lungs, testes); beryllium (lungs); mercury (kidneys, brain); arsenic (many organs including blood); phosphorous (bones); selenium (liver); fluorides (many organs); dichloromethane (kidney, liver, brain); 2-ethoxyethanol (kidney, liver, brain, reproductive system).

CHEMICALS THAT PRIMARILY AFFECT THE BLOOD: acetonitrile, aniline, antimony, arsenic, benzene, carbon disulfide, carbon tetrachloride, cobalt, DDT, ethyl silicate, EGMME, ethylene oxide, fluorides, lead, manganese, mercury, methylchloride, nitrobenzene (nitrophenol), phenylhydrazine, radium, selenium, tetrachloromethane, thallium, thorium, toluene, toluene diamine, toluidine, trichloroethylene, trinitrotoluene, uranium, vanadium, xylene.

CHEMICALS THAT PRIMARILY AFFECT THE LIVER: acrylonitrile, aflatoxin, allylalcohol, antimony, arsenic, beryllium, bromobenzene, cadmium, carbon disulfide, carbon tetrachloride, cerium, chlorinated diphenyls, chlorinated naphthalenes, chloroform, cobalt, cycloheximide, cycloparaffin, DDT, dioxane, dimethyl formate, dimethyl nitrosamine, dinitrophenol, diphenyl, ethanol, ethylene chlorohydrin, ethylene dichloride, hydrazine, methyl bromide, methyl chloride, methyl formate, methylene chloride, nitrobenzol, phenol, phenylhydrazine, phosphorous, pyrolizidine alkaloids, tannic acid, tetrachloroethane, thioacetamide, trichloroethylene, triflurochloroethylene, trinitrotoluene, uranium, urethane.

Thank you alfernandes for all the time and effort you've spent researching this for us.

Chloryl

In chemistry, chloryl refers to the cation having the chemical formula ClO+2. It is polyatomic ion the structurally identical to chlorite and having the same chemical formula but with chlorine in the +5 oxidation state rather than +3. In chloryl, the two oxygen atoms "borrow" a pair of electrons each from the central chlorine atom, forming chloryl, and another elmement or ion oxidizes the chlorine further, leaving the chlorine with one electron pair, wheareas in chlorite one oxygen "borrows" two electrons from chlorine and the other "borrows" one from chlorine and one from another element, leaving chlorine with two electron pairs. Chloryl is isoelectronic with sulfur dioxide.[1]. Chloryl compounds, Such as FClO2 and [ClO2][RuF6] are all highly reactive, and react violently with water and most organic compounds.[2][3]

Structure
The ClO+2 cation is isoelectronic with SO2,[1] and has a bent structure with a bond angle close to 120°. The bond-stretching force constant for its bonds indicate that the Cl–O bond has double bond character.[4]

The red color of ClO+2 is caused by electron transitions into an antibonding orbital. The analogous transition in SO2 is not in the visible spectrum, so SO2 is colorless. The strength of interaction with the counterion affects the energy of this antibonding orbital; thus, in colorless chloryl compounds, strong interactions with the counterion, corresponding with the higher covalent character of the bonding, shift the transition energy out of the visible spectrum.[1]

Compounds

There are two categories of chloryl compounds. The first category is colorless, and includes chloryl fluoride (FClO2). These are moderately reactive. The second category features red-colored compounds that are highly reactive. These include chloryl fluorosulfate, ClO2SO3F, and dichloryl trisulfate, (ClO2)2(S3O10). Chloryl compounds form red solutions in fluorosulfuric acid, and have been found to contain the red-colored ClO+2 cation. In the solid state, the Raman and infrared spectra indicate strong interactions with the counterion.[1][2] Not all chloryl compounds in the solid state are necessarily ionic. The reaction products of FClO2 with BF3 and PF5 are assumed to be molecular adducts rather than true salts.[1][4]

One notable chloryl compound is dichlorine hexoxide, which exists as an ionic compound more accurately described as chloryl perchlorate, [ClO2]+[ClO4]−.[5]

Chloryl compounds are best prepared by the reaction of FClO2 with a strong Lewis acid. For example:[4]

FClO2 + AsF5 → [ClO2][AsF6]
Other synthesis routes are also possible, including:[4]

5 ClO2 + 3 AsF5 → 2 [ClO2][AsF6] + AsF3O + 4 Cl2
Cl2O4 + 2 SbF5 → [ClO2][SbF6] + SbF3O + FClO3
Metathesis reactions may be carried out with strong Lewis bases. For example, the reaction of the hexafluoroplatinate salt with nitryl fluoride yields the nitronium salt:[4]

[ClO2][PtF6] + FNO2 → [NO2][PtF6] + FClO2

References
↑ 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 H. A. Carter; W. M. Johnson; F. Aubke (1969). "Chloryl compounds. Part II. Chloryl hexafluoroarsenate and chloryl fluoride". Canadian Journal of Chemistry 47 (24): 4619–4625.
↑ 2.0 2.1 Christe, K. O.; Schack, C. J.; Pilipovich, D.; Sawodny, W. (1969). "Chloryl cation, ClO+2". Inorganic Chemistry 8 (11): 2489–2494. doi:10.1021/ic50081a050.
↑ Bougon, R.; Cicha, W. V.; Lance, M.; Meublat, L.; Nierlich, M.; Vigner, J. (1991). "Preparation characterization and crystal structure of chloryl hexafluororuthenate(1-). Crystal structure of [ClF2]+[RuF6]−". Inorganic Chemistry 30 (1): 102–109. doi:10.1021/ic00001a019.
↑ 4.0 4.1 4.2 4.3 4.4 K. O. Christe; C. J. Schack (1976). H. J. Emeléus, A. G. Sharpe. ed. Chlorine Oxyfluorides. Advances in inorganic chemistry and radiochemistry, Volume 18. Academic Press. pp. 356–358. ISBN 0120236184.
↑ Tobias, K. M.; Jansen, M. (1986). "Crystal Structure of Cl2O6". Angewandte Chemie International Edition in English 25 (11): 993–994. doi:10.1002/anie.198609931.

The Many Health Dangers of Fluoride

According to information from its Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS), and from the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), the pharmaceutical grade sodium fluoride is a dangerous toxin that can cause serious physical harm.

The chemical targets your:

Kidneys
Heart
Gastrointestinal system
Bone and skeletal structures
Teeth
Nerves

The MSDS for sodium fluoride also states that fluoride compounds can induce:

Systemic toxic effects on your heart, liver, and kidney

Depleted calcium levels in your body leading to hypocalcaemia and death

It points out that the toxic effect of fluoride might be delayed, and that laboratory experiments have resulted in the development of tumors.

In order to understand the long-term dangers of fluoride, it’s important to realize that fluoride is a cumulative poison.

Ninety-eight percent of the fluoride you ingest in water is absorbed into your blood through your gastrointestinal tract. From there, it enters your body’s cellular tissues. On average, about 50 percent of the fluoride you ingest each day gets excreted through your kidneys. The remainder accumulates in your teeth and bones, pineal gland, and other tissues, such as the aorta.

The amount deposited into your bones and teeth varies depending on your age. In children, more than 50 percent of an ingested dose of fluoride is deposited in bone, but in adults only about 10 percent is stored there.

As with teeth, fluoride is deposited in bone by the ionic exchange with hydroxyl-apatite as mentioned earlier. It does dissolve from bone as well, but at a slower rate than it is deposited, so if your intake remains constant, the level of fluoride in your bones increases linearly with age.
Therefore, if your kidneys are damaged, fluoride accumulation will increase, and with it, the likelihood of harm.

There are numerous health problems associated with the accumulation of fluoride in your body, such as:

Hyperactivity and/or lethargy
Arthritis
Dental fluorosis (staining and pitting of teeth)
Lowered thyroid function
Lowered IQ, and dementia
Disrupted immune system
Fluoride also causes genetic damage and cell death, inactivates at least 62 enzymes in your body, and accelerates the aging process.

Overdosing is Easy

When water fluoridation first began, the “optimal” level of fluoride for dental benefit was said to be 1 mg/day for an adult male, based on the estimate that the average adult male drank one liter of water per day. However, even at that level, 10 percent of the population (those in the high-risk group) was expected to get fluorosis.

But water is not the only source of added fluoride.

Although you may not know it, you are exposed to fluoride from many sources other than the obvious lineup of toothpastes and mouth rinses.

Far less obvious sources of fluoride include:

Food and beverages processed with fluoridated water
Mechanically de-boned meat
Pesticide residue on food
Pharmaceutical drugs, especially SSRI antidepressants and fluoroquinolone antibiotics like Cipro
Soy baby formulas
Instant tea

A 1991 review by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services shows just how drastic your overexposure might be when taking multiple sources into account.

Further Education

I strongly advise you to continue educating yourself about fluoride and to avoid it as much as you can.

The Fluoride Action Network is a phenomenal resource for further education, and they’re doing much to pressure the US government for change. Their Statement asking Congress to end water fluoridation in the United States has now been signed by over 2,750 professionals.

There are also a number of books on the subject that are well worth reading, including:


The Fluoride Deception by Christopher Bryson

Health Effects of Ingested Fluoride by Bernard Meyer Wagner

Fluoridation: the Great Dilemma by George L. Waldbott

Fluoride the Aging Factor : How to Recognize and Avoid the Devastating Effects of Fluoride by Dr. John Yiamouyiannis

Scientific Knowledge in Controversy: The Social Dynamics of the Fluoridation Debate by Brian Martin.

The Grim Truth About Fluoridation by Robert M. Buck

Hi all,
Very new here all this talk and reams of chemists jargon isbeyond meand taking its toll on what I thought should have been an issue brought up sometime ago or is it a problem we have created I am wondering how good Jims Sodium chlorite added to our tap water would hold up it must have been ok for jungle swamp water, perhaps I have got it all wrong somewhere however I am having to put on hold the distilled water machine for now too expensive!.

Mercedes, MMS has been mixed with "city water" for a long time now. It may or may not be optimal. (probably not, but IMHO fluoride is not optimal, any way you slice it) - Bill does tend to worry about things. Nothing wrong with that.

I still get my distilled water at Walmart - I use it for making MMS and CDS, but use my well water for making my doses.

It is frustrating as the fear of consuming fluoride may decrease our essential fluid intake and cause dehydration with all its complications. Most home water filters won't take out fluoride. The types of filters that do remove fluoride are activated alumina filters, reverse osmosis units, or distillation, but they are no easy options for the 3rd world. Collecting rain water is the easiest option if there is no other natural sources. Will MMS rid our bodies of the fluoride that is trapped in our bodies? Toxbase suggest if there is any poisoning to only treat symptomaticly and even activated charchoal is useless.

Janneman use water that does not contain fluorine. Chlorinated water and just boil.