TOPIC:

Michael;

Your discussion has get me into thinking of setting up NGO (Helping the Poor)... When there is donations, this donation will go into this account legally and can gain more donations from the public because we were able to issue legal receipt for each donation received by establishing a NGO Bank Account. At the same time, we do not mention the donation is frm the used of MMS... nor the NGO is giving out MMS...

Therefore MMS is out from this NGO and is consider giving out for Free by a church without single monetary is involved. As when the happier individuals who used MMS successfully, their donation will be credit into NGO account as just willing donation to support the NGO but not about MMS usage... can this be done in view of Law?

Edwin, I will investigate this further but let me just make some comments off the top of my head to get you thinking. The problem with an NGO is it is probably much like a nonprofit corporation, it is an entity under the total legal control of the governments.

A church will give you all the same benefits, but you will be Constitutionally protected from government control. You can set up a bank account for the church and give people legal receipts for their contributions, if you are in a country that respects freedom of religion. The governments are NOT in control of the churches because the judges will say they are under the protection of the Constitution, therefore the governments cannot tax the churches or control them. This is why churches are tax free in the countries that have freedom of religion.

You and David should both check with your local banks and find out what are the minimum requirements needed to set up a bank account in the name of or for the benefit of a church. I am very familiar with the requirements here in the US for setting up bank accounts for business entities, but I don't have experience with churches however the issues are very similar. A church is just a particular kind of entity. Bank accounts can also be set up in trust for an entity such as a church. In this case the name on the account will be your personal name but legally, so long as you follow the legal formalities, the account will belong to the church.

I need to research a little about Malaysia and about NGOs and I will have more info to give you both. Let me know what you are thinking and what you find out from your bank.

Michael

Thanks Michael;

Will go through with my local bank and give you some feedbacks...

Thank you Michael, all I have always wanted to do is help Jim Humble by promoting MMS in Tanzania and helping my people, curing the sick and proving te skeptics wrong, it would be an honour to serve with the Genesis Church, a dream come true, yesterday I already booked my air ticket before getting your latest message on the forum, was no electrical power here the whole day came back tired went online read your message.

Have to pay the air ticket by the 21st March, Dar es Salaam, via Amsterdam and New York to Santo Domingo.

I consulted my kids the most important angels to me, my kids are adorable, they support me unconditionally, full trust with whatever I do, had a good nights sleep hoping I would dream something to help me make a decision, but I think I have already made up my mind, this whole month things have been happening which I am sure are not coincidental, I am even trying to protect others giving alternative medicine out there without them even knowing, they are in danger and I am educating the press in the country how they should do a bit more research, pointing them to websites where they can educate themselves before they write articales putting miracle healers down etc.....

So I am all for setting up a subdivision for the Church of Genesis in TZ, let me know on how we proceed, I am going to the US Embassy to check on formalities as the flight is through JFK, I hold German nationality just want to make sure everyting will run smoothly through transit, of course I still have to raise money for flight ticket and all other expenses foreseen to attend the seminar.

Will check here with banks about account opening for a church and I await for further guidance on how we should proceed.

Thanking you well in advance,

Sincerely,

David

Awesome Brother David, let us proceed! I think you are right, this is bigger than you or I. Seems like the most we can do is fulfill a role or path that is given to us.

Your heart is in the right place and that is the most important thing, just wanting to do what is right and help the poor and afflicted. That is what Jim is doing.

Setting up a subdivision of the Church of Genesis is definitely the way to go. When you are helping people and making them well, solely for a donation, I think they will be flocking to you regardless of the name. The scoffers and mockers will be put to shame with the good that you are doing.

The Genesis II Articles will be the Articles for your church. Let me spend some time researching on the net to find out what I can about making it legal in your situation. Probably all that is needed is to publish the Articles in the legal notices section of a newspaper that qualifies for doing that there. Also probably recording them at your government offices (called the County Recorder here) that record real estate transactions and other legal formalities. These things would be sufficient here in order to create a church.

If you can then get a ceremonial laying on of hands by Jim when you see him in order to accomplish Apostolic Succession, then you have added a VERY STRONG religious and legal formality for proving you are a religious organization protected by your Constitution. Jim knew how important this was, and I am sure that is why he did it.

The government in the US then wants to trick you into filing papers for a nonprofit corporation and filing for 501(c) tax exempt status with the federal tax authorities. These are mistakes and unnecessary; they are only voluntary not mandatory. The Catholic Church does not do these things. You are tax exempt the minute you create a church, and this is backed up by legal precedent. It will be that way in your country too because you have Common Law. We only need to do whatever the Catholic Church (if it is there) or other powerful church has done in your country to obtain legal validity.

Bruce can contact Jim privately. Now that you are firmly behind proceeding as a division of the Genesis II Church, it would be a good time to contact Jim for any instructions from him.

I am so glad this is your decision David. I feel very strongly this is what needed to happen. Your children sound wonderful. I am remembering all of you in prayer. May you and your country be the David that slays the evil Goliaths.

Your brother in doing good deeds,

Michael

Hi Michael thanks for all of this info and getting me this far, have attached bankers requirements to open an account for a church in TZ.....

Will certainly be contacting Bruce and onwards to Jim, thanks a million for everything so far....




Best regards,

D......

David,

Good job sending in the scan, helps a lot to have that. I know how to generate all the documents they are requesting, this is what you run into with business entities also. My dad and brother had a home building business a few years back when the real estate industry here was doing better. I helped them set up and operate numerous business entities for that operation, so it is familiar territory for me.

I have a few questions if you could answer please.

1. Do you know what a Certificate of Registration is, referred to in #1?
2. Do you know what a Company Organogram is, referred to in #3?
3. Just want to verify, these requirements are typical for a business entity bank account, and did they tell you these are the requirements for a church (ie, religious organization) also?
4. Is Zanzibar a state or province?
5. Is Dar es Salaam where you are located a city?
6. Where are real estate title transfers recorded locally for your area?
7. What is the name of the chief taxing authority (especially for income taxes) in TZ?

In the US we have county, state and federal government levels of legal jurisdiction/authority that come into play, so I need to figure out how things are set up there. Your answers will speed things up for me in that regard.

Numbers 5-7 of their requirements you will not be able to provide because those only apply to an established business, but you are just starting out. From our dealings with banks, it all depends on how important your business is to them. They are very lenient when you've got serious money running through your accounts. If we are not able to get them to open an account based on these requirements, then we may be able to meet their requirements for a trust account. See if they have a document giving the requirements for a trust account where you are the Trustee for a trust.

If their requirements for a trust account are too much to meet at this time, then you can simply set up a separate personal account, and so long as only church business is transacted through it, it will stand up in court if necessary. As long as you treat the church business as completely separate from your personal or other company business, then it will be sufficient if challenged. The Common Law realizes that all you can do is be as diligent as possible and you have to start somewhere. If you are so small getting started that no bank wants to deal with you, then you just have to make do with a personal account that is treated strictly as a church account.

Again, good work David!

Michael

Michael, thanks for your kind email.

I have an private account at the Barclays and so I went and saw the customer care desk, Amina the officer there actually had no idea about details regarding opening an account for a church, she had to go and consult and they keep me 20 odd minutes as I think they had no idea probably what is required for a churches account, had to call their headquarters I am sure and consult eventough I was in their flagship main branch in town, actually I was at their headquarters last week with other business and have the card of their head of products manager with me a Mr. Ray Kaijage, could call him tomorrow and double check, but it seems even for a charity like a church it is more or less a standard business account which also covers NGO's etc.....

I am sure they do not have any other seperate details for a church, it would fall under a constitution.

1.Do you know what a Certificate of Registration is, referred to in #1?

This would be your Company's Certificate of Incorporation or in our case the Churches Certificate of Incorporation.

2.Do you know what a Company Organogram is, referred to in #3?

Just Googled it:0) - Its a simple organizational chart of managers- Wikipedia - An organizational chart (often called organization chart, org chart, organigram(me), or organogram(me)) is a diagram that shows the structure of an organization and the relationships and relative ranks of its parts and positions/jobs. The term is also used for similar diagrams, for example ones showing the different elements of a field of knowledge or a group of languages. The French Encyclopédie had one of the first organizational charts of knowledge in general.


3.Just want to verify, these requirements are typical for a business entity bank account, and did they tell you these are the requirements for a church (ie, religious organization) also?

Yes as mentioned they are using the same criteria for a charity or church, as a basic business account as you can see.

4.Is Zanzibar a state or province?

Zanzibar is not a province, it is a state within a state- As a semi-autonomous part of Tanzania, Zanzibar has its own government, known as the Revolutionary Government of Zanzibar. It is made up of the Revolutionary Council and House of Representatives.

Wikipedia- The relationship between Zanzibar government and Tanzanian Mainland has not been so well in recent years since Tanzania Prime Minister Mizengo Pinda's remark about the Isles' sovereignty that Zanzibar is not an independent country outside the Union Government, within which it can only exercise its sovereignty.[12] Members from both the ruling party, Chama Cha Mapinduzi (CCM), and the opposition Civic United Front (CUF) disagreed with Mr Pinda's interpretation and stand firmly in recognizing Zanzibar as a fully autonomous and full state,[13] the move which is widely unrecognized by the formation of the Government of the United Republic of Tanzania which raises a backlash between Members of Parliament from the Tanzania mainland and Zanzibar.

They got issues to solve lets say, but in theory and practice for Zanzibar you are required to register newly any company- church you have registered on te mainland.

5. Is Dar es Salaam where you are located a city?

I am located in Dar es Salaam, was born here, it is the commercial capital of Tanzania mainland, but I also have a home on Zanzibar many people believe I am Zanzibarian, you could say I am part of the furniture there. Between Dar es Salaam and Zanzibar it is only a short 20 minute flight, 50 km seperates the island from the mainland, Stone Town is the capital of Zanzibar. On Tuesday I will be on Zanzibar just for te day, go in the morning and return in the evening.

6.Where are real estate title transfers recorded locally for your area?

Ministry of Lands- Department of Lands and Registration.


7.What is the name of the chief taxing authority (especially for income taxes) in TZ?

Tanzania Revenue Authority- TRA-

www.tra.go.tz/

Do not worry to much about tese details, I covering lawyers letter as in point 7 (ii) and as they already know me it is not as complicated as it seems, these formalities are normal whhat can take up to a year is getting the church registered, the regional commissioner himself has to sign any new business/constituation, can take up to a year or longer, but of course with a bit of chai as they call it to make the ink flow faster things can be speeded up, have a young friend already looking into this and e specializes on all paper works on Zanzibar it is faster get my lawyer to do it, even here I could use a lawyer if I am in a hurry but as usual everywhere officials speed things up if you got chai (tea, breakfast).

Point 2 has Trust Deed would this be a trust fund, do not worry I can get an account opened in no time if we have the church incorporated and registered, its a formality.

Currently the personal account with the Barclays I have was set up originally on Zanzibar with my Zanzibar resident details which is a $USD account, I was in the bank to ask about opening another account for use in TZ Shillings, all I need is to go to our local elected street leader and get a letter from him saying he knows me and that this is my address, they need pictures and ID and within a week a private account is opened, could also use my Zanzibarian address to open up further accounts in USD$ or in TZ Shillings under childrens names and run them for business sepeartely to getting an account in any form is not a problem, its the Certificate of Incorporation and Registration that takes time on the mainland, I have 2 registered companies, one on Zanzibar and a second on TZ mainland.

Do not even have a business account have been using my private account for all these years, I TZ private individuals have a right toearn up to $20,000.- USD before income tax by the way, just to let you know.

I would need the Articles of Association and all other supporting docs as soon as possible to get the ball running, opening a bank account is a small issue, theres over 20 different banks registered here and I am sure all will not be as strict as this, with Barclays as I already have an account with them, it makes it easier for them knowing me for over 5 years now, they just see my face in most branches and they do not even always check with their system, its a very small community in a way here.

Please do let me know what else needs clarifying, or needs following up and I can do it, using extraman power if need be, but done it all before and I got a small good time around me as outside help when ever I need it, people I grew up with and know from childhood.

Where there is a will there is a way.

Thanks.....

David, excellent info. Do you have a link for who does the Registration? You said it has to be done on the mainland and the regional commissioner has to sign off. Could use a link for this regional commissioner's office too probably? I need to look up what the requirements are for anyone who needs to sign off.

Since you have residence in Zanzibar AND TZ it sounds like the church could be registered in either place, right? Or perhaps both are needed if you want to have church activity in both locations? It should only be necessary to "File" the Articles in ONE location (eg, TZ)--that creates the church. Then if the church wants to carryout activities in another jurisdiction (eg, Zanzibar) then it may need to carry out some additional registration requirement for an existing entity expanding into a new jurisdiction. Let's do whichever is simplest unless you think it has to be done in one or the other.

The relationship between Zanzibar and TZ sounds like overlapping jurisdiction, similar to states here in the US. You have to comply with the requirements of both of them. From what you are saying though, we only need to get registration from TZ?

The Articles of Assocation are easy enough, do you have anyone else there who could be an officer or on the board. I'm willing to do it if we just need another name, but if you have people there let me know. I'll look at Jim's Articles and see how many names we need, possibly 2 or 3 if I remember. They have to be willing to sign off on resolutions and minutes of meetings for church business. Probably not necessary for everyone to be present together but have to be williing to sign off.

Thanks,
Michael