I'm going to start with less MMS1 and use whatever "less than spent" solution is left after the receiving end is saturated. I'll dilute, fill a couple of teeth-brushing and spray bottles, refrigerate and use it until it's completely spent. Why not, eh? It isn't going to be contaminated in any way, right?

I don't throw out MMS1 solution until it is completely clear and the taste is gone. Why should I? Perhaps there is a reason I shouldn't brush my teeth with it, but even a weak solution will deodorize smelly trash cans and detoxify a bag of dry-cleaning, eh?

I will also be using an ice bucket to keep the receiving solution good and cold.

If I were going to ship CDS, I would use half full bottles, squeezed to remove as much air as possible and then thoroughly sealed in the squeezed configuration. With instructions to refrigerate for 24 hours before opening. That way the gas will have room to expel as it warms up or if it gets too warm, during shipping, and then be reintegrated with refrigeration before use. One could experiment with that, readily enough. How much you could put in a bottle, how much air must be released, how warm it could get before bulging the bottle, how long it would take to cool it back down and get the gas back into solution, etc., etc..

I don't sell MMS but those of you who do could practice sending bottles of CDS back and forth. Or I'll practice with someone. You never know - I might need to send some somewhere, some day.

edit: Just saw the new vid with Jim making CDS and he has the receiving end in ice water so I guess that will work. Hadn't thought about using a small bottle for the MMS. Makes perfect sense to leave no room for the gas in the MMS bottle. Cool!

Michael and Steve,

I thought the purpose of the air pump was that of mixing the two reagents in the reaction chamber. If this is not the reason and the pipe connecting to the pump doesn't deep into the reacting solution, in my opinion it is useless. At the contrary, the air you blow in the system may have a stripping effect on the final solution with loss of ClO2. This is particularly true if the second chamber is too short.

Apart from this, it would be useful if when making the experiments you post:
1. the final ml of solution in the reaction chamber;
2. the final ml of CDS solution;
3. the grams of NaClO2 used for the reaction;
4. the ppm of ClO2 obtained.
It is obvious that the quantity of acid, citric or chloridric, has to be always in excess, in such a way that the efficiency in ClO2 terms is the same, not depending on the kind of acid used.
In this way we can make a statistic of the efficiency of the process.
From the numbers I have seen till now the efficiency seems very low. I doubt that something is wrong with the indicator used.
I can't imagine that over 50% of ClO2 goes lost.
It is a pity I can not help with the experiments. I am not a seller of MMS and I have only a small bottle of it; so I had to order the product and it didn't come in till now. But 25 liters are on the way.
Thank you.
Alanti

Ok, I just made some for myself.

I'd like to say a thank you to all here for the exchange of information.

Bill too.

I did the hot water way, with no forced air and the bubbles stopped in the second bottle until I shook the first bottle some more and when I thought there was no more, I capped my ClO2 bottle and put it back in the fridge.

So, then I went to pour the "spent" MMS down the bathroom drain. Whew! what a whiff. That was ok though. It gave me a bit of a dry throat and I didn't mind.

Then I thought of Bill's caution and that made me think of my iron drain pipes. Woah. So all I could do was to turn on the faucet with cold water and hope for the best.

I turned on the bathtub faucet too so more water would wash it down below.

Next time it's going outside in the yard. That is unless someone finds a use for it.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is still some healing potential left in the reaction chamber after making the ClO2.

Now I can see how I did with that batch.
I think I will get some test strips too.

Oh, and Dishpan and Michael are right about the corks too. I added some masking tape around the polyethylene tubing where it goes into the corks and it sealed. I will have to get a new setup, but this works for now.

Thanks everyone!

Joe

Hi Steve,

Regarding Nir's question on the tube from the air pump going into the 1st chamber (MMS & activator), thanks for clarifying. I thought we were trying to get it to bubble through the liquid but now that I look at your picture again it looks like you just a have a straight glass tube going down almost to the bottom of the bottle.

In my set up, I did have my homemade polyethylene tube bubbler down in the reaction solution. It is nice if we don't have to do that. Probably it does need to go down low in the flask like you have because that Cl02 gas seems kind of heavy, at least it might be best that way.

Michael

Steve wrote:

I know a couple in CA who has a lab, and used to have a good bit of Sodium Chlorite.... wonder if it's them?

As far as I know his wife is a scientist for environment Canada and they use a work facility to carry out experiments on the side. As for the guy he took sick several few years ago and almost died and thats how he started using MMS. Ad far as I know he has no chemistry training and so I think its his wife is who heads most of the research. Ive been told that they also have a doctor following his progress but not directly involved in another other than monitoring the effects of the MMS by routine blood tests and a few other things. Anyways I find him to be a very nice guy and hes one of the few people I know whos been taking MMS several times a day for over four years now.

STL

@Steve,
If you find the 0-50 test strips, would you post a link here? I can only find 0-10 and 0-500. The 0-500 does show smaller increments, but it's not nearly as sensitive as a 0-50 would be.
Pam

Made some yesterday, a couple things to say:

avoid the natural cork route, the gas will leak out/through before it gains enough pressure to make bubbles.

I made my "airtight" reaction chamber by removing the glass tube from a dropper cap, poking a hole through the top of the squeeze bulb, pushing the pointed end of the tube out through the hole, and screwing the cap back onto a 4oz glass bottle. (like that picture of the bottle with pour spout and inverted dropper tube)

and...

it tastes fine in milk. Thanks everyone!

does the tube that comes out of pump goes into the MMS1 liquid so the bubbles bubble inside the activated MMS at the first chamber?

Thanks

Nir

Steve wrote:

The only problem is that unless every CDS generator is built to same specs and all, each person will need to determine that thru testing on their own.

Grainger sells the ClO2 test strips online fairly cheap. I also really want to point out that 3rd chamber of sodium thiosulfite.
Pinch a penny has this for about 10 bucks called a chlorine neutralizer. It will neutralize any vented ClO2, the smell is negligible.

Some people can not tolerate the smell of ClO2, and this is a big help. I just put a few grams into 16 oz of water. I ran 5 batches thru it, and it stayed clear. One of those batches was Flake with HCl and it was STOUT. 500 ppm in CDS in 5 minutes. If someone was going into production of more than personal use, I would recommend doing this.

Again Steve.. is sodium thiosulfite also named sodium thiosulfate? My area had the sodium thiosulfate which is crystal white... please clarified for me... thank you...

@Alan_SP

I was thinking, and could be wrong, that I would activate 3 drops of mms, put it in 4 oz of water, and measure the ppm. This would give me a "base measurement"

Then I would take 1mL of CDS, made as Mark and Andreas have shown, put it in 4 oz of water, and measure the ppm.

Assuming that Mark and Andreas are correct, (each mL is equivalent to 3 or 4 drops of activated MMS) would this not work as a test?

Today I tried my 'quickie' improvised forced air generator. The chambers are glass but the tubing is all 1/4" polyethylene. I did make some bubble diffusers by heating up the tubing to crimp the end shut and then used a straight pin to poke holes in it. I have glass tubes coming and will convert to all glass as soon as I can.

I bought the lowest price aquarium pump at petco. I also bought a 2 gang valve for it. That way I could exactly control the air flow into the reaction chamber. I did have to open the other valve a little to let some air through to relieve some of the air going into the system.

I also tried using a cork for the reaction chamber yesterday and it did not work. It was too porous and not enough pressure would build up to push Cl02 through the tubing into the cold water. Today I tried a mason jar with holes drilled in the plastic lid for the tubing (see pic). That also did not seal well so I did not get any gas being pushed into the 3rd chamber where I had plain water to try and soak up any excess Cl02 escaping from the 2nd chamber. Therefore, I think a rubber stopper is necessary on the 1st (reaction) chamber for sure to get good sealing, and any chamber where you want good sealing. In the pics below, that is a light colored rubber stopper on the smaller reaction chamber so I could get a good seal.

I put my setup out on the back patio and had a large fan blowing right near it to dissipate the Cl02 escaping from the mason jar.

I had 1000 ml of cold distilled water in the 1/2 gal. mason jar and used 110 ml of MMS and 110 ml of HCl 4%. I let the air pump for 30-40 mins. till the chambers were both the exact same yellow color.

I do believe I am getting full saturation of the distilled water now, whereas I did not the first two times I generated without forced air. I have been taking 1/2 tsp. CDS hourly (in 2 tbsp of water) 8 hrs/day for the last 2 weeks and when I started taking today's batch from forced air, it started burning my throat. It is definitely stronger, the yellow is darker also. I think this is real saturation.

It seems to me the chlorine dioxide test strips (0-500ppm) are not that accurate when you get into the higher ranges. It might be better to take 1 ml. of the CDS and put it in a certain amount of distilled water and take a reading from that to get the reading into the lower ranges.




Start of the generation.




End of the generation 30-40 mins.

Michael

I don't know technical side of this forum (I own vBulletin one), but if we could have category or something equivalent of forum, I'd like to suggest forum for CDS, to place all different topics related to research of CDS.

And there we could discuss all different aspects, like basic procedures how to make CDS, more advanced ones etc...

Hi Bill,

In reference to your comments about slowing things down, I'll just speak from my own personal viewpoint, not speaking for the forum or the church, just my own perspective. You are certainly entitled to have your own view and I appreciate the thought you put into your post.

However, I think this technology is life saving, and the sooner it gets disseminated and put to use the better. This is usually my worst time of year healthwise and the CDS is helping me tremendously, much more than the MMS1 & 2. I'm still doing MMS1 in bag treatments daily but that is a pure chlorine dioxide approach also, more similar to the CDS. I think many people who have had trouble with MMS will benefit greatly with this CDS. People are dying for lack of it.

There is no reason at all we can't press forward with the knowledge we have and find more and better solutions, and then teach it to others. This forum is a perfect place to share our experiences so we can pool our knowledge and move forward.

Part of what we are doing is learning to take responsibility for our own health. That means learning to be our own authority and learning to make our own decisions. That means people have to be allowed to make their own mistakes and learn from them. But really I see a whole lot of benefit here, and no one getting hurt.

I won't say, 'slow down', I say, "Full steam ahead!!!"

Michael

Well, I want to suggest method how to compare strength of CDS and MMS.

First, my results I have so far. With my friend I tested how strong is 1 drop of MMS, activated with 10% citric acid. We used industrial device for measuring ppm of CD. The result was that 1 drop of MMS in 100mL of water makes 2 ppm of CD. That translates to 1ppm in 200mL of water. It further means that 1mL of water with 1 drop is equivalent of about 200 ppm of CD in CDS. That is, if you have CDS with 400 ppm, each mL equals to 2 drops of MMS.

But, I may be wrong (we did test it more than once) and you use different measuring equipment. So my suggestion how to test it:

First, make CDS and test its strength, i.e. how how many ppm of CD it has. Of course, use test strips you have.

Then: Activate 10 drops of MMS with 10 drops 50% citric acid (standard procedure). Then add water up to 10 mL. You need to have 10 mL of MMS solution. Basically you'll need to add something less than 9mL of water (we have 20 (10 MMS and 10 citric acid) drops, as 17 drops are 1 mL, it's a bit more than 1 mL).

You just test this solution with your test strips. This solution equals to strength of 1 drop of activated MMS in 1mL of water, which coresponds to CD in CDS.

If I measured correctly first time, you'll get strength of about 200 ppm (or somewhere in that range).

On the other hand, if 1 mL of CDS equals 3 (or 4) drops of MMS, and average CDS solution is 250-300 ppm, then you should get somewhere between 80-90 ppm.

Just to note, you don't need to use 10 drops. You could use more or less, but it's important that you use same number of drops as number of mL you add water up to, i.e. if you use 5 drops of activated MMS, you add water up to 5 mL and then measure. I just think that 10 drops are good number to reduce errors.

Of course, you could scale it, and use for example 1 drop of MMS and add water up to 10 mL, so you would need to multiply measured ppm with 10. It all depends on what scale test strips have, where they are most precise. I think that readings in tens of ppm are most precise.

And of course, please share your results with all of us.

Yes, we could leave it to Jim, but I was also thinking that we may be giving ideas to Jim by this discussion.

I have a couple of thoughts too.

I have my materials ( two beer bottles and about a dollars worth of two corks and tubing ). I'll probably post a photo too when I make my first batch this weekend, tomorrow.

One of my questions is: do we know the comparison of how much 28% sodium chlorite is used to make an amount of chlorine dioxide as opposed to how much of the same MMS is used in the old method to make an equivalent number of doses?
I mean, does it cost more MMS to get this new method?
I suppose I will find that out when I make my first batch and taste it and then I'll make a rough guess, but it would be nice to know.

My other thought is this: The MMS and activator (citric acid for me) is in the first bottle.
The saline or distilled water absorbs an amount of chlorine dioxide and then when saturated, it vents chlorine dioxide and I suppose then it is time to take it all apart and put a lid on the saline/chlorine dioxide bottle and refrigerate it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is what I thought.

Well, just for experimentation, and please forgive me Bill, but hey talk is cheap and I'm just talking at the moment. So, why not increase the amount of saline before starting, so all of the chlorine dioxide is absorbed?

I'd like to maximize the quantity of chlorine dioxide captured.

Cheers to all our good health and here's hoping and praying that we can convince others to get interested in this and succeed in their own health!

Joe

It appears to me that eveyone is trying to re live their high school days like when the teacher leaves the room and says come up with your own ideas and we will discuss it when I get back.

Slow down eveyone -- too many of you are trying to out do the teacher here. It is not a contest! Wait on Jim Humble and his team for further comments, I am sure they are writing proceedures as we speak. Let them test the new product.

So -- what have we learned so far?

1/ We know how to make MMS1, we know the activation time & we know how to take it. Okay we all got that part-- the basics.
2/ We now have CDS, we now how to make it the simple & safe way way per the video.
3/ So what do we need to know about CDS?
I) We kneed to know how to store it to keep the gas in solution--below 11c & out of UV light. What period of time will it last in the fridge?
II) We need to know how to messure the concentration of CLO2 in the solution so we can take the proper safe amount each time. We need a chart. III)
III) Can it be transfered over a period time in a sealed air tight bottle then cooled down again when it reaches it's destination to re absorb the gas into the solution?
IV) How does this solution get absorbed into our bodies if the gas comes out of solution above 11c ? Wouldn't the gas fill our stomach & get vented out the mouth?

We have many questions yet to be answered.
Plus there is IV directions to learn and needles all this is still in the discovery stage.

It is good to ask question and share ideas but it is best to wait for approval before giving others the green light on your new ideas. This is called due diligence and quality control or damage control.

Aye, there's the rub. I understand that the latest 1 week leukemia cure was using the "mix the 8 doses i a bottle in advance" procedure. Whether it was kept cold in the fridge, I don't know. The person who would know is the one who reported it - Mark Grenon -

The things I keep in mind - from the process of MAKING CDS, heat will release the gas. The gas is what we're looking at as a cure. I think we're supposed to keep it around 40 degrees F to keep it in solution. So it would seem to me that carrying it around all day at 90 degrees might not work, but I'm going on my own version of "common sense' here. Contact Mark to see what he says.

Steve wrote:

There's a lot of stored energy in this stuff.

PS you are creating pressure in the gas chamber or it would not bubble thru the water.

Yes indeed
I was also about to suggest to wear eye goggles for protection.

But please, stay safe, or you (and all of us!) could end up like this!

thebsreport.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/bad_hair_day_by_cherie_buller.jpg?w=500&h=482