Fink autopsy results made public as dangerous MMS promoted as cure...

brtanner wrote: Hi JB and welcome to the forum!

Well, I think that the idea that 2 drops of MMS could be fatal or trigger any kind of fatal syndrome is ridiculous. And for Sylvie to die 12 hours after taking such a small dose surely indicates that something else was going on with her body and metabolism.

I think that the lack of repeated claims that her death was the result of the MMS she took shows how low the credibility of that is.

Hi, thanks for the response and welcome to the forum.

However, out of curiosity, I wanted to ask if you knew what concentration of chlorine dioxide is generated with two drops of MMS in a 16 ounce glass of water? And more importantly... how this compares to typical chlorinated tap water?

One of the reasons I ask, is due to the overall smell of chlorine in our own tap water, which seems far more potent than that of two drops of MMS in an equal amount of water, and so I was wondering if they were even comparable?

Also, was their ever mention of the MMS product she specifically used? Was it tested?

I didn't read anything about that in the report, but I was wondering if there was any possibility that the product was bad?
I guess one of the horrors that follow buying and using MMS from places such as eBay and other online trades is that we just never know what were buying. Which is the main reason I buy my own certified Chlorite and Acid and do the mixing myself.

Hey JB,

You can check out a post I put up today - you can find it in the Recent Topics in the thread "PPM and other questions from the training DVDs" - which outlines the questions around Parts Per Million and MMS1 dosing in general.

The 2 drop dose that Sylvie/Sylvia Fink supposedly took was AT MOST in the range of 5-7 ppm (and probably much less) under theoretically ideal circumstances, if ALL the chlorine dioxide in the dose was fully activated and entered her bloodstream at once, an impossibility. She is supposed to have gotten her sodium chlorite solution from fellow yachters in Vanuatu, who were using the same MMS themselves.

You don't know what you're getting, I guess, in an absolute sense. I use technical grade sodium chlorite supposedly from a reputable chemical supply, but I don't have the resources to test my materials for impurities. To be fully accurate, we don't know what we're buying from ANY supplier or merchant, unless we were with every vendor who supplied them during the entire process of the creation of every ingredient in their products.

I always test my supplies to see if they perform as they're supposed to, within my abilities to assess that. But beyond that, it seems we have to take a certain amount of what we're offered on faith, or life would become basically unlivable. If people know what MMS looks like and does when activated, they can activate an unfamiliar batch to see if it seems right.

Based on the rarity of incidents in which people are exposed to seriously adulterated products, I think that calling the prospect a "horror" is a trifle exaggerated.

Okay thanks again for all your help with this(found the information btw).

Since I'm trying to establish how much Chlorine Dioxide would exist in a two drop MMS mixture(w/16 Ounces) in contrast to typical tap water, then I guess my next task is to to figure out how much Chlorine is injected into our local water lines.

I was already told the values would vary depending on the place and time of year, but I'm just trying to figure out if there are any correlations between that of two drops of MMS and tap water. Because by smell and taste alone, I'd say the tap water were drinking seems to have far more Chlorine than that of two drops of MMS.

Also in reading back my last post I'd say the term horror was out of context(it was early morning here) and so I guess I didn't bother to go over my post very carefully to check how it all came across. Anyways... for what it's worth, I think a proper term would of been "one of the downsides...." of ordering from unknown sources etc etc. and so I wanted to put that into proper context.

As for due diligence, I too ordered my MMS from a chemical company(in Canada) which came with purity and various other quality control documents. And I'd agree... that beyond this, there is little else one can do to in concluding that we've done our best to avoid bad products etc. - To which I'd add... I've been taking a 10-12 drop dose, three times a day for over 1-1/2 years now and well... I'm still alive! - And so I guess that means this Chlorite checks out okay.

Well that about covers it!
And so I'll say thanks again for the help and information.

Sincerely,
JohnB

Hi John, FYI, the "official" recommendation for water purification is to use 1 - 2 UNACTIVATED drops of MMS1 per gallon for clear water or 3 - 4 drops per gallon for murky or cloudy water and wait at least 8 hours before using. This is how you want to treat water for storage - without activation.

For rapid disinfection, activate 3 drops per gallon and add to water after activation is complete. Water will be safe to drink in 10 minutes.

I have no idea how much ClO2 is used in municipal water systems. I believe that for the most part, it's done with sodium chlorite activated with hydrochloric acid. It's supposedly significantly more expensive than disinfection with chlorine, but very much less toxic - ClO2 does not produce Trihalomethanes (THMs) through reaction with organic compounds in the water or cause compounding reactions in the body, like chlorine does.

The chlorine-like smell from water with MMS in it is from the chlorine dioxide off-gassing. It's not elemental chlorine (Cl2).

brtanner wrote: I have no idea how much ClO2 is used in municipal water systems. I believe that for the most part, it's done with sodium chlorite activated with hydrochloric acid. It's supposedly significantly more expensive than disinfection with chlorine, but very much less toxic - ClO2 does not produce Trihalomethanes (THMs) through reaction with organic compounds in the water or cause compounding reactions in the body, like chlorine does.

The chlorine-like smell from water with MMS in it is from the chlorine dioxide off-gassing. It's not elemental chlorine (Cl2).

Hello again,

You're information is once again immensely helpful and so thanks again for all the help.

One thing I've just encountered in my research for municipal water treatment methods is the repeated claim that Chlorine Dioxide can cause nerve damage in children and anemia in adults...
And since I've been taking alot of MMS for quite a long time, I'm wondering if I shouldn't be concerned?!?

However... I don't feel bad, in fact I feel much better than I ever did before my treatment, though I've had to make some interesting adjustments in my diet(supplements etc) in order to cope with the treatment. Anyways I don't mean to throw all the questions on you, but you seem to know more about the product than anyone I've ever spoken too and so I was hoping you might have some reassuring information to share on that.

JohnB

Hi John,

Thank you for the testimonial about taking 10-12 drops 3 times a day for 1.5 years and having good results. I am glad to know that. If I was in your shoes, I wouldn't hesitate to keep doing it so long as there is benefit. It seems to me the results Jim has reported indicate the benefits of sodium chlorite and chlorine dioxide so outweigh any detriments as to put the substance in a class nearly by itself.

I'm a lot more concerned about the chlorine and flouride in water supplies, and most all the other chemicals of industrial civilization which have a narrow range of benefits and a list of detriments pointing toward extinction. Once in a while we find a few minerals or other natural substances that seem to do nothing but heal and cure everything. These are not the things I am concerned about, but rather the big negatives that are somehow being ignored.

I think it comes down to public relations. The real dangers that are doing us all in, are promoted by the best sales reps money can buy. Simple nontoxic solutions are an obvious threat to these vested interests. So they spend a few dollars on damage control and spin doctors to confuse everyone. I realize I am presenting philosophy here and not science, but I do think it is the truth.

Thanks again John, continued good health to you,

Michael

Michael Harrah wrote: Hi John,

Thank you for the testimonial about taking 10-12 drops 3 times a day for 1.5 years and having good results. I am glad to know that. If I was in your shoes, I wouldn't hesitate to keep doing it so long as there is benefit. It seems to me the results Jim has reported indicate the benefits of sodium chlorite and chlorine dioxide so outweigh any detriments as to put the substance in a class nearly by itself.

Okay no problem. I'd also point-out(for the sake of others) that taking MMS at this frequency and length of time did come with its own share of complications. And though I certainly can't generalize any of the effects of long term use of MMS on the human body beyond that of my own experiences, I will say that I've uncovered the following:

1. Long term use of MMS will cause intolerance
Though this seems to be a rather well known fact, I guess its worth mentioning that the taste and smell will inevitably get to anyone who uses MMS for a long enough period. Luckily, the solutions to this were quite easy to come-by and so I wouldn't consider these to be more than a discomfort.

2. MMS induces or causes diarrhea
This was my first real roadblock with MMS. And though I've read numerous claims of die-off effects etc. I think two years of use is enough to conclude that were looking at something a little more substantial in terms of digestive alterations. Perhaps the acid or something else(I don't know), whatever the case, its a persistent side-effect and so I guess its worth noting. Though the solution is/was as simple as adding a digestive enzyme to ones regiment.

1. MMS induces electrolyte imbalance
This was perhaps the most detrimental side effect in my own MMS treatment. And though it wasn't quite apparent at first. It did become a rather serious issue after a few months into my treatment. However, after various blood tests, it was concluded that the MMS either affected or altered the electrolytic composition of the body. Which was pretty unnerving to say the least, as I contemplated having to stop my treatment(and regressing) as an alternative, but... I was relieved to find that a simple daily supplements adjustment was all it took to keep things in check and so it all worked out. However... the fact remains, that there are known chemical and physical consequences to taking MMS.

Which is what lead my concerns on the issue of anemia and/or nerve damage. Which is to say... I don't think it's wise to let our guard down or look the other way on any of the potential side effects that may follow either use or long term use of MMS per say. Especially, given the fact that we are potentially living test-subjects under the current terms of MMS treatments per say. And so I just wanted to clarify on that particular side of the equation. IOW. Yes... MMS has given me my life back! However, that doesn't mean I am prepared to turn a blind eye to all potential risks associated with the long term use of MMS either(see).

Anyways, I'm not trying to give you a hard time here(just to be clear), I'm simply stating the reasoning behind my inquiries and concerns on matters and information regarding the documented effects of Chlorine Dioxide on the human body.

I'm a lot more concerned about the chlorine and flouride in water supplies, and most all the other chemicals of industrial civilization which have a narrow range of benefits and a list of detriments pointing toward extinction. Once in a while we find a few minerals or other natural substances that seem to do nothing but heal and cure everything. These are not the things I am concerned about, but rather the big negatives that are somehow being ignored.

I think it comes down to public relations. The real dangers that are doing us all in, are promoted by the best sales reps money can buy. Simple nontoxic solutions are an obvious threat to these vested interests. So they spend a few dollars on damage control and spin doctors to confuse everyone. I realize I am presenting philosophy here and not science, but I do think it is the truth.

I guess we could conclude this to be one of the many tragedies that come-out of a world governed by money.

Regarding the below, if I didn't know better I would think that they were carefully constructed to plant negative impressions in the mind of anyone considering the use of MMS.

1. Long term use of MMS will cause intolerance. Though this seems to be a rather well known fact, I guess its worth mentioning that the taste and smell will inevitably get to anyone who uses MMS for a long enough period. Luckily, the solutions to this were quite easy to come-by and so I wouldn't consider these to be more than a discomfort.

I definitely had the experience of developing a distaste for the smell of MMS when it was activating. There are various theories for why this happens, but it's a common phenomenon. However, it's hardly "intolerance." John, this is another case where you seem to be using inflammatory language. Perhaps you were tired again. It's particularly troubling to me that you say MMS "will cause intolerance" and then follow it with something that smacks of NLP like "this seems to be a rather well know FACT" (emph. added). In the case of my aversion to the smell, it now seems this is long past, and it no longer bothers me.

2. MMS induces or causes diarrhea. This was my first real roadblock with MMS. And though I've read numerous claims of die-off effects etc. I think two years of use is enough to conclude that were (sic) looking at something a little more substantial in terms of digestive alterations. Perhaps the acid or something else(I don't know), whatever the case, its a persistent side-effect and so I guess its worth noting. Though the solution is/was as simple as adding a digestive enzyme to ones regiment (sic).

This also seems to be somewhat confusing and inaccurate, almost trying to make what is, actually, a very simple chemistry acting harmlessly in the body sound like something only a professional scientist can understand. My experience, and that of everyone I've encountered who worked long-term with MMS/sodium chlorite solution, has been that the nausea and diarrhea were exclusively the result of an excessive level of toxins either in my bloodstream or in my digestive tract from the breakdown of pathogens or toxic compounds. Everyone I've ever communicated with about this, and many people I've worked with using MMS has experienced the development of progressively less reactivity as their bodies become less toxic. I don't vibrate harmoniously with the use of such expressions as unspecified "digestive alterations," or suggestions that digestive enzymes are needed to be able to use MMS. There are other simple, common sense measures that we've used in dealing with detox/Herxheimer reactions, such as taking Bentonite or Zeolite to absorb toxins in the gut so that they're flushed out and not re-assimilated into the bloodstream.

1. MMS induces electrolyte imbalance. This was perhaps the most detrimental side effect in my own MMS treatment. And though it wasn't quite apparent at first. It did become a rather serious issue after a few months into my treatment. However, after various blood tests, it was concluded that the MMS either affected or altered the electrolytic composition of the body. Which was pretty unnerving to say the least, as I contemplated having to stop my treatment(and regressing) as an alternative, but... I was relieved to find that a simple daily supplements adjustment was all it took to keep things in check and so it all worked out. However... the fact remains, that there are known chemical and physical consequences to taking MMS.

Which is what lead my concerns on the issue of anemia and/or nerve damage. Which is to say... I don't think it's wise to let our guard down or look the other way on any of the potential side effects that may follow either use or long term use of MMS per say. Especially, given the fact that we are potentially living test-subjects under the current terms of MMS treatments per say. And so I just wanted to clarify on that particular side of the equation. IOW. Yes... MMS has given me my life back! However, that doesn't mean I am prepared to turn a blind eye to all potential risks associated with the long term use of MMS either(see).

Please post evidence of the blood tests you mention. When I see anyone mentioning anything like "concerns on the issue of anemia and/or nerve damage" it naturally piques my interest, as, so far no one has EVER produced evidence of such. And I think that Big Pharma and the FDA have done a lot of research into finding anything they can use to attack the use of chlorine dioxide internally. I'm disturbed by the nature of what you're posting, John, and I find it quite anomalous from someone who ostensibly expresses gratitude for the effects of MMS on his wellness.

No one associated with MMS education advocates "turning a blind eye" to any evidence regarding its use. However, it's quite clear that there is a concerted campaign to sew confusion in the minds of people trying to research MMS' possible benefits for them or someone they love.

Anyways, I'm not trying to give you a hard time here(just to be clear), I'm simply stating the reasoning behind my inquiries and concerns on matters and information regarding the documented effects of Chlorine Dioxide on the human body.

I don't think you're giving any of us a hard time, but I do think that you might be saying things that will confuse or seriously misinform someone looking into MMS1 for the first time. If you do have DOCUMENTED effects of chlorine dioxide, please provide the hard research.

Bruce your reasoning is dead on I would have to say. Thank you.

John you look like a pro at creating confusion in all honesty. I have been watching the MMS forums for a while now and have yet to see anything suggesting this claim, "One thing I've just encountered in my research for municipal water treatment methods is the repeated claim that Chlorine Dioxide can cause nerve damage in children and anemia in adults."

Good ole silverfox the hired pharma troll hasn't even made that claim yet so where is the support for it? Looks like damage control and spin doctoring to me.

Bruce's points are well stated. If you are going to make such claims John, please back them up with something.

Michael

Administrator's note: This is the last post by member JohnBee. Apparently, having what I and others see as bald-faced inaccurate claims questioned was intolerable for him. It should be amply clear that he made no good faith responses to the questions put to him, or explanations of them being mistaken or misunderstood. Many attacks are made on MMS that seem designed to place nebulous doubts in the minds of people before they try using MMS, MMS2, DMSO, or other "marginalized" healing methods as part of their quest to take responsibility for their own wellness in the face of the blindness of much of the medical industry.

brtanner wrote: I definitely had the experience of developing a distaste for the smell of MMS when it was activating. There are various theories for why this happens, but it's a common phenomenon. However, it's hardly "intolerance."

So having the ability to tolerate something(taste and smell) which later turns into not having the ability to tolerate something is not intolerance?

Based on this I don't think we'd ever agree on whatever angle you're proposing, though I can assure you that many people have grown intolerant to both the taste and smell that is derived from the ingestion of MMS. And that is a known fact which has proven to be true in my case, and in many other people that I know who have taken MMS long term.

And it doesn't really bother me that this happens, I mean people can grow intolerant to the taste of anything at all under constant or significant exposure, however what does bother me is the obvious undertone developed in your responses at the sight of complications following the use of MMS. Which is to say.. I'm not at all shocked though I am disappointed that I would find the same level of behaviors from both the skeptic and proponents side of the MMS groups online.

This also seems to be somewhat confusing and inaccurate, almost trying to make what is, actually, a very simple chemistry acting harmlessly in the body sound like something only a professional scientist can understand. My experience, and that of everyone I've encountered who worked long-term with MMS/sodium chlorite solution, has been that the nausea and diarrhea were exclusively the result of an excessive level of toxins either in my bloodstream or in my digestive tract from the breakdown of pathogens or toxic compounds. Everyone I've ever communicated with about this, and many people I've worked with using MMS has experienced the development of progressively less reactivity as their bodies become less toxic. I don't vibrate harmoniously with the use of such expressions as unspecified "digestive alterations," or suggestions that digestive enzymes are needed to be able to use MMS. There are other simple, common sense measures that we've used in dealing with detox/Herxheimer reactions, such as taking Bentonite or Zeolite to absorb toxins in the gut so that they're flushed out and not re-assimilated into the bloodstream.

What if I told you that I can take citric acid(minus the MMS) and end-up with diarrhea.
Note: I would say this might indicate that this was one of the approx. 1% of the population that has an allergy to citric acid - this has NOTHING to do with the action of MMS.

And of course, I already know the reflex response(where's your proof) is next, but beyond that... don't you think it's a little uncanny that common folk such as myself have the experience to back-up the claims?
Well unfortunately, in cases such as these, theory doesn't trump fact as you would be hard pressed to show(equally) that MMS either does not induce of cause diarrhea under certain conditions(ie. large doses long term). But we do know this... if you give the mentioned MMS protocol to a perfectly healthy person, they will indeed develop diarrhea. But you don't have to take my word for it. Just try it and see for yourself(see).

Please post evidence of the blood tests you mention. When I see anyone mentioning anything like "concerns on the issue of anemia and/or nerve damage" it naturally piques my interest, as, so far no one has EVER produced evidence of such. And I think that Big Pharma and the FDA have done a lot of research into finding anything they can use to attack the use of chlorine dioxide internally. I'm disturbed by the nature of what you're posting, John, and I find it quite anomalous from someone who ostensibly expresses gratitude for the effects of MMS on his wellness.

And how do you propose I share these findings exactly?

I would consider such response to be on par with the responses I found in another forum which was riddled with anti-MMS fanatics. To which I might add. the act of calling out people on their word based on unrealistic terms can only be concluded as a negative response. I don't know what part of the world you live in(I'm sure it varies) but when we go to the hospital and get blood work done, the results are given to us orally by a doctor. And though there are times when scans and/or radiographs are shown, for the most part, we never see them.

But more importantly... your response is nothing more than an elaborate attack on my credibility. But notice how you yourself can't deal with the fact that I am grateful that the MMS has given me my life back, however I am also aware of the consequences that follow taking it? Yes... imagine the shock of knowing that a person can both appreciate and respect something at the very same time.

Anyways... I'm done here.

As it is quite clear that this forum is no better than the rest of the forums with regards to the realities surrounding the use and benefits of MMS. Which is to bad really, because out of all the places I would have expected closed mindedness, this would have been the last of them.

Please delete my account now.
I have no interest in being a part of this community.

John