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CDS 12000 08 Nov 2012 12:57 #26106

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So someone is either overcautious, has personally experienced explosions....or is making an attempt to spread fear and panic. I wonder which of the three wins the prize.

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CDS 12000 08 Nov 2012 14:29 #26114

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Thank you for your council and insight...the more I read the less I know, so a few questions please.

A.) when you say large receivers, how large is large in comparison to liquid volume(fl oz) versus container volume?

B.) explain "contact time" with regard to PPM

C.) using the pump method...do you extend the tube from the pump into the bottom of the reaction chamber or hover
above the solution?

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CDS 12000 08 Nov 2012 14:43 #26115

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LOL. The only time I had a problem with CDS "huffing" was making it the old way, using heat to warm the mixing jar and ice water to cool the receiving jar. The mixing jar was not clear (still yellowish), so I had gas in both the mixing jar and the tubing. When I pulled the mixing jar and tubing to take outside, it was quite cold outside, and I had little explosions, like small fire crackers, coming from the tubing. It was the most amazing thing to watch - sort of like watching the movies where you see flame coming from the end of a pistol barrel when you shoot a gun. I've made CDS a number of times, and only had a problem once. I think it was my second attempt - I've never had a problem with the newer methods of making CDS - like the shotglass method.

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CDS 12000 08 Nov 2012 15:25 #26123

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I'm not sure how he can make his statement.....

Hi Pam,

Actually, Andreas Kalcker made the statements. He clearly states it in his videos.
"Very unstable solution"

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CDS 12000 08 Nov 2012 15:33 #26125

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12000 is over-saturated CDS... it will gas off given the room and temperature to do so.


Thanks for that, Steve.
There's no such a thing as a 12,000 "Saturated" solution. You just said it. It's "Over-Saturated", which brings me back to the point that a normal CDS solution is between 3,000ppm and 4,000ppm, and not more!
Once you take out some CDS out of an over saturated bottle, and you mix it with water, if you do the measure with the strips or an electronic device, the reading will show that range,
There's only so many molecules that can "bind" to the water molecules, and the extra ones will gas out of the water in a matter of seconds, leaving a saturated solution in the 3,000ppm range. Even in cold water, once the solution stabilizes.

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Last edit: by kwag.

CDS 12000 08 Nov 2012 15:40 #26126

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Actually, that's not so, Karl. I'm sorry. You need to get testing strips and work it out for yourself.

The term "saturated" is not sufficiently clear to use in English, IMHO, and is the one term that Andreas uses that is, unfortunately, problematical.

He has since emailed me and stated it is a "drinking dose" - but we have people drinking much higher than 3,000 ppm/L for cancer and it doesn't just drop to 3,000ppm magically in seconds.

And ALL CDS will gas off, whatever the ppm, given light and temperature - keep it dark and cold and it will be somewhat more stable, to a certain extent, but it will still off gas over time, even dark and cold. That has been my personal experience, with testing strips.

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Last edit: by pam.

CDS 12000 08 Nov 2012 16:10 #26128

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Actually, that's not so, Karl. I'm sorry. You need to get testing strips and work it out for yourself.

Sorry, Pam, I already have!
I'll post the measurement procedures we did.
Quick test, you can do yourself.
In an open, uncovered glass of cold water (~50f), mix your CDS and in 10 seconds measure your PPM.
This will give your 6,000+, 9,000+, etc. reading.
Wait 1 minute, mix with a teaspoon, and quickly take another reading. This will now read between 3,000 to 4,000 ppm.
Wait one more minute. Stir again, and take a reading. Again, you'll get between 3,000 to 4,000 ppm.
The initial measurment was high because the solution was over saturated.
Once it stabilizes, and the excess gas escapes, some molecules stay binded, and that's your real result!
You can even take another reading a couple of minutes later, and you'll still see the same range of 3,000 to 4,000 but more closer to the saturated 3,000ppm.
The fact is, chlorine dioxide will only bind to water to some extent, but not more!, and the 4,000+ reading everyone is getting are NOT binded to water, and will escape. It's "Floating" gas between water molecules, which will escape in a matter of minutes.

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CDS 12000 08 Nov 2012 16:14 #26129

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Why in the name of goodness would you wait 4 minutes to drink a dose? stirring it in between to cause the gas to off-gas and leave it uncovered? It gets warmer over time, and off-gasses from that, too. None of this experiment makes any sense to me. We don't use it that way. If you continue with this technique it will undoubtedly not stabilize, but will continue to off-gas just due to the increase in temperature.

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Last edit: by pam.

CDS 12000 09 Nov 2012 01:20 #26154

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Why in the name of goodness would you wait 4 minutes to drink a dose?

Please Pam, that's not what I said.
The pupose of stirring was to show that only the binded molecules stay in the water. The ones that are not, will gas out.


stirring it in between to cause the gas to off-gas and leave it uncovered?

Again, for test purpose and measurment.

It gets warmer over time, and off-gasses from that, too. None of this experiment makes any sense to me. We don't use it that way. If you continue with this technique it will undoubtedly not stabilize, but will continue to off-gas just due to the increase in temperature.

It will gas of until it stabilizes and the solution is saturated. Not over saturated.
If you keep the water at a constant temperature, say 58F, even an open glass will hold a 3,000PPM steadly measurement for way over half hour.
So put your 12,000PPM solution on a glass of cold water, put it back in the refrigerator, and half an hour later it will read close to 3,000PPM. Which is what's supposed to read.
What I posted was to validate that there is NO 12,000PPM saturation. It's OVER saturation of loose CDS chlorine dioxide molecules that are free in water.

( Confirmed by Andreas over a phone call today. Not to mention he asked me why on earth would anyone make a 12,000+ solution! It's explosive and dangerous! )

And also, the next thing we need is someone getting burned by blowing up a 12,000 "Over Saturated" solution in their face, and then going to a doctor. Then we'll start to see bans against Sodium Chlorite exactly because people want to get the most "PPM" of their home made solutions.
This is not very practical. This is NOT needed!

Thank you!
The following user(s) said Thank You: KennethWalter

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