TOPIC:

CLO2 wrote:

Karl, how about you doing some actual testing with proper measuring equipment instead of guessing what is going on?

All you are doing is scaring people away from making CDS.

Get real.

--Charlotte

You should be scared, by fooling with a concentration way above of what was meant to be!
Do a 3,000PPM solution, and be safe. Read my prior post.

So, are we going to go to a fight between Andreas and Jim Humble? Jim Humble has given a protocol for making much higher PPMs of CDS and also has treated people with that. I have made a much higher PPM, and have had no problem with "explosions" - as have a number of others on the forum.

pam wrote:

So, are we going to go to a fight between Andreas and Jim Humble? Jim Humble has given a protocol for making much higher PPMs of CDS and also has treated people with that. I have made a much higher PPM, and have had no problem with "explosions" -

It's not a fight! It's a clarification of what can happen with a high concentration of chlorine dioxide gas.

In the end, it's your choice.

given that I have not seen the "issues" you seem to be concerned about - and that you state that Andreas might be concerned about - I think I will be hanging with JH on this issue. This is not a "clarification" but actually a denial of what JH has stated. Another thing to keep in mind is that although you speak of a conversation with andreas via email on these issues, we have no idea exactly the words used or the response - without those, we cannot make any decisions - I'm sorry....

" I use forced air and large receivers. I use the powder method for the most part, or 16 oz of mms at a time. "

STEVE,

could you please elaborate on those methods?

I'm always interested in options....

kw

kwag wrote:

pam wrote:

... it should last a while.

Or until it gets a spark from the fridge!

Frankly, I don't think I ever want to carry or store any CDS over 3,000 PPM.
It's just too unstable, even in water.
I'm sure a 12,000 PPM "Bang On A Fridge" will surely open the fridge door!

After checking out all the back n forth......I'm thinking...the "unstable" part, says more about the mixtures ability to off gas to a lower ppm, than having a surprise "situation", especially inside the fridge...not a likely scenario in my opinion.

kw

I had only the one experience, which I've mentioned on the thread, when taking the "making materials" outside after making - never in the fridge - and have had 12500ppm in the fridge. I've been making this since Andreas' first video, a year ago.

12000 PPM in my opinion is very safe. We have run many tests, the water holds the PPM just fine. As far as exploding- we haven't had it happen. Actually had some tech's take a torch to closed bottles filled with CDS as well as open bottles spilling out, no fire , no explosion, simply because its in water. The Gas it self can explode such as when it is in a tube such as how Jim was showing people how to make it at home. Basically any gas is flammable. Peoples natural gas is technically flammable but you don't see yourself blowing up when you get hot or if you jump. When gas is in a "liquid" that is non flammable like water it cannot explode. We have even left bottles outside to "cook" in mid-summer for days with no reaction at all.

3000PPM simply means that 0.3% of the water is saturated with CDS. 12000 PPM means 1.2% is saturated. This is actually very minor. This is why people like Jim were testing 24-25,000 PPM solutions and have used them personally as well as treating people with 0% issues, side effects or problems. However when making these solution especially at home it can be very tricky or dangerous when going that high depending on how you do it. This is why easier ways such as the shot glass method is very practical, also for home use making 3000-6000 PPM is much more practical and safe in my opinion - "in the making". The part that is unsafe is the Gas itself - out of water can explode only if ignited or contained with pressure, if the pressure is allowed to always escape and you don't ignite it then your fine in the making. The biggest issue for home made use of CDS was the tubes getting clogged of CDS resulting in an explosion.

Hope this Helps,

John D.

Solubility of chlorine dioxide in water
at 25 °C (77 °F) is about 65000 ppm so CDS 12000 is not "Over-Saturated". There is a graph of temperature dependance of CD solibility in water in attachment.

CDS above 6000 ppm might be dangerous
if my calculation is correct (see the pdf and xls files).
From this report :

Chlorine dioxide (ClO2, Chemical Abstracts Service [CAS] No. 10049-04-4), a free radical, exists as a greenish yellow to orange gas at room temperature with a characteristic pungent chlorine-like odour. Chlorine dioxide gas is strongly oxidizing; it is explosive in concentrations in excess of 10% v/v at atmospheric pressure and will easily be detonated by sunlight or heat (Budavari et al., 1996). Its melting point is -59 °C, its boiling point is 11 °C (at 101.3 kPa), and its vapour density is 2.34(air = 1).

If the information in bold above and my calculations are correct, then CDS with concentration greater than cca 6000 ppm is dangerous (at temperatures above 25 °C).
As the vapour density of chlorine dioxide is rather high, it can concentrate at the bottom (similar to carbon dioxide accumulation in lowest parts of caves).

According to many literature sources CDS concentration up to 3 000 - 4 000 ppm only is considered safe at adequate manipulation.

Tomas