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None of the products, protocols or methods here have been approved by Jim Humble. This is the research forum and was set up for those wanting to discuss and experiment with MMS, and new complimentary technologies. Any experimentation that you personally do is at your own risk. Before anything is submitted for approval it must be first approved by Jim Humble in writing and posted under his account. The main source for approved material, protocols etc, is in Jim Humble's latest book at www.jhbooks.org Each person using this Forum is considered to be completely responsible for themselves and their own personal health. Any experimentation that you personally do is at your own risk.

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Re: Making CDS with sodium chlorite & citric acid powder 12 Jan 2012 02:46 #10087

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Thanx, Michael. I'm sure that your equation is the correct one, Please delete mine to avoid confusion.
Paul

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Re: Making CDS with sodium chlorite & citric acid powder 12 Jan 2012 03:26 #10089

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Hello Michael, Steve, Pam and Everyone!!! I am a newbie.

I got some CDS from a vendor (not sure if I should mention names?) although I plan to make my own. I really like it compared to the MMS which I d/c because it made me so sick! Currently, I use 1/4 t. 8x/day. After 3 days, just drowsiness, that's all! I am thinking of increasing to 1/2 t. 8x/day and Protocol 2000???

As far as supplements, would natural C like Pure Radiance and food only herbal caps interfere with the CDS?

Steve, You use 1 liter glass Flasks? Do they come with stoppers? What do you use to make holes in the stopper, please? How much sodium thiosulfate ( thio ratio to distilled water) do you mix in the last bottle to neutralize the chlorine gas odor?

It is too cold here to make it outside, so I am looking for a way to prepare it indoors.

Thank you for any help you may give me!!!

Muysana

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Re: Making CDS with sodium chlorite & citric acid powder 12 Jan 2012 15:06 #10100

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Food herbal caps should be OK, but all vitamin C (ascorbic acid) should be 2 hours after the last dose of CDS. I'll let the others answer the more technical questions. I tend to dose in mLs, Michael has more experience with tsp doses. Do you know what your ppm measurement on the batch is?

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Last edit: by pam.

Re: Making CDS with sodium chlorite & citric acid powder 12 Jan 2012 17:09 #10108

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Steve, You can use silicon stoppers...

www.stiflow.com/silicone_fab_stoppers.htm

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Re: Making CDS with sodium chlorite & citric acid powder 24 Jan 2012 21:04 #10877

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Hi Steve, I am new here, but as a chemist I am able to respond your last question. The scrubber serves for removing of chlorine and HCl that may develop at some quantities during chlorite reaction with acids. Both chlorine and HCl react with NaClO2 in scrubber to form another ClO2. Of course some ClO2 remains dissolved in solution in scrubber (solution remains yellow). Perhaps that's why some procedures use saturated solution of NaClO2 in scrubber or even scrubber filled with solid (granulated) natriumchlorite. I think, that it is possible to use scrubber with the same content repeatedly and diminish the lost this way. Having a solutions of ClO2 of high purity is a need at analytical laboratories (standards for calibration). I prefer using scrubber too. I believe the pure CDS has better taste and its stability is better. Here is a procedure for preparation of ClO2 in laboratory:
www.oxy.com/OurBusinesses/Chemicals/Products/Documents/SodiumChlorite/Laboratory%20Preparations%20of%20Chlorine%20Dioxide%20Solutions.pdf
AWWA Standard Method 4500-ClO2 describes similar apparatus but there is another bottle with distilled water prior the reaction bottle. There is no explanation of its purpose. I speculate that wet air more easily dissolves ClO2 in reaction bottle and, more importantly, ClO2 dissolves more readily at final product water. It serves as secure bottle as well - the reaction mixture cannot get to the air source when the press change (my experience :-(). I appreciate your exhaust scrubber with natrium thiosulfite. It should be essential part of every home apparatus. I am not sure if my English is comprehensible enough. Sorry, it is not my native language.
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Last edit: by Tomas.

Re: Making CDS with sodium chlorite & citric acid powder 25 Jan 2012 08:34 #10903

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Hi Tomas, welcome to the Forum!

Thanks very much for your info an insights in this area. We could certainly use more chemistry expertise here.

I would just like to point out that I did reuse my gas scrubber solution once and I had multiple explosions (in the scrubber flask) where there was a "pop" and the stopper popped off and even liquid came flying out. Happened about four times in 10 mins. The explosions were getting stronger each time and I thought they weren't far from breaking the flask glass.

That is the only time I have had explosions, so I don't reuse the gas scrubber solution any more. I was using 5% unactivated sodium chlorite solution as recommended in the Oxychem technical bulletin. So I would be very careful about reusing any gas scrubber solutions.

Michael
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Last edit: by Michael Harrah.

Re: Making CDS with sodium chlorite & citric acid powder 25 Jan 2012 21:12 #10929

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Ops, great surprise for me, no explanation at this moment for the explosions you are referencing about. To be honest, reusing of the content of scrubber was just my theoretical consideration as I have only one batch with scrubber made till now. Thank you very much for your warning. I will be very careful and tentative with next batch. Of course, for this moment we can't recommend reusing of content in the scrubber! You were lucky that you had stoppers that could pop off the neck of the scrubber. In case you had screw caps, bottle could splinter and sharp fragments and aggressive chemicals could seriously hurt your eyes. That reminds me - using protective GOGGLES is advisable during our experiments.
As regards safety. People should use air stripping NOT only connect the reaction bottle with the receiving one. The main purpose of the air stream is to DILUTE developed ClO2, decrease its concentration. We know well and it was reiterated here at this forum many times, that ClO2 might be explosive at higher concentrations! Another benefit of air stream is speeding up the transfer of ClO2 from reaction to receiving bottle. I am afraid that most people understand the second function of air stripping only and not the more important first one.
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Re: Making CDS with sodium chlorite & citric acid powder 26 Jan 2012 06:57 #10947

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Hi Michael, Tomas. I'm suspecting that the explosions are from the production of H2 from improper proportions of the reagents. I noticed one member say that he uses HCl instead of citric. Looking at that equation, there seems to be no alternative to the hydrogen production. Pumping air through the system would provide oxygen to make water. NaClo2 + HCl > NaCl + ClO2 ^ +H2^. Tomas?

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Re: Making CDS with sodium chlorite & citric acid powder 26 Jan 2012 15:31 #10974

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2paul:

Pumping air through the system would provide oxygen to make water.

- certainly not. Hydrogen doesn’t react with air until the mixture get some stimulus – and then the reaction is explosive. To my knowledge H2 could not be the product of NaClO2 reaction with acids.
If it really was “chemical” explosion it might be only ClO2 decomposition.
2Michael: Due to the hydrostatic and hydrodynamic pressure in receiving bottles there is overpressure in the scrubber. If the stopper got released with overpressure then the air flow would increase abruptly and cause the solution get out. Michael, if you are sure it really was “chemical” explosion, not the above mentioned mechanism, how long and what condition was the solution from your scrubber stored before used again?

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