TOPIC:

Starting a new thread for the forced air method of producing CDS. Steve is the first to do it and posting what he has said so far below. Thanks for blazing the trail Steve!!!

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I just ordered some pyrex and stoppers. I'm going to make a bubbler setup, using an air pump rather than heat to transfer the gas,
With a manifold to create smaller bubbles.

I want to put some up and test it every day to see what the falloff is (if any).
I have checked with some of my sources I use for chemistry questions.... and I don't understand why you have to bubble into saline solution, unless its a buffer to bring the pH of the distilled water up to around neutral. The gas itself will (should) keep fine in any water that isn't acidic, be it saline or no.... if this is the case, then sodium bicarbonate may also work.

I will probably try 2 methods.... one with MMS and citric acid, and one with 5% NaClO2 and 6% HCl. The HCl will convert 100% of the available ClO2, whereas the Citric Acid will only release about 2/3 and hold the rest in reserve in the clorous acid. You can't use HcL with MMS for this conversion because the reaction would be pretty violent. You would need a 25% HCl to get the full potential.

From what I understand the ClO2 solution can remain viable for 30 days easily, as long as there is no UV exposure.

I am looking forward to the stuff getting here.

Please everyone remember that the gas in the small bottle is explosively flammable, and take all due care, and work in a well ventilated area.

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Ok, Here's what I got done today.
I made my CDS Generator.


The 3rd chamber contains a chemical called sodium thiosulfite. It neutralizes ClO2.
The vented gas at the end of the run has very little chlorine smell, and even after 5 runs remained clear.

My first run was with MMS and 50% Citric Acid.... 50 drops of each.
The forced air method with a cold mix did not have the thick gas cloud.
I got about 250 ppm in 10 minutes.


Then I used 1 gram of Sodium Chlorite Flake and enough 6.25% HCl to cover it.
I had a nice yellow mixture in 1 minute

The result was over 500 ppm in 5 minutes.

The 3rd run was with 5% NaClO2 and 6.25% HCl. This gave me 150 ppm ClO2 in 10 minutes.

It seems that in the long run, while not the fastest method, the 5% seems to be the most efficient. 1/4 the actual NaClO2 content returned over 1/2 the amount on ClO2 as the MMS and citric acid. I'll be playing with this a few days, and I will try to get Some one on the Island to give me an idea of what the ppm range should be.

Just getting started here.

I think this might be useful. It's a PDF with instructions on how to cut and bend glass tubing.

It doesn't seem too difficult.

Can someone please explain what are you trying to achieve by using this method?
Is there any different between CDS created with a pump and CDS created without one?

thanks
Nir

Nir, Steve can answer, but as I see it from what he has posted, he gets a much higher ppm via this message. (Which, of course, means you will need to adjust your doses!) It seems to utilize more of the MMS/CA into the infusion liquid.

Pam, I still do not understand why would the water Absorb more with a pump then without one... i mean there is a limit that the water can not absorb any more and if it is still can why would it NOT absorb it from the bubbles that come without a pump and WILL absorb it if the bubbles comes with the aid of a pump.

It is just doesn't make sense to me....

As far as I can tell, it seems the hot water method is way faster to complete the process.
There's no way that the forced air can finish the process faster, because the Chlorine Dioxide is still generated at a lower % than with the hot water.
I've done two batches, and they complete in less than 5 minutes with the hot water bath. There's no way that any pump could make the process faster, unless a "Hot Air" pump was used. And that would heat the cold water in the collector.
And then, you would have to consider a good air filter, because I wouldn't want dust and air polutants aggregated to the gas mixture. I think Andreas method is hard to beat, and that's the method I will continue to use, because it "Just Works (tm)"

-Karl

Steve,

As long as you have an opening on the end, there's hardly any pressure build up!
But I understand your concern, and If I were to build a device for sale, yes indeed I wouldn't use the hot water method
But for MY batches, I'd prefer the hot method, because the gas is forced faster to the collector.
BTW, a hybrid system would work even better, and that is, the hot water WITH the pump!
That would force a continuous flow of air through the system, and avoid buildup in the generator chamber

-Karl

And, truly, Steve, the only thing I'm concerned with is the consistency of dose (which I'm sure most of us are thinking about) - the forced air method is really great - IMHO -

When I made my first 2 batches there was enough gas left over to be significant to me (hey, I cleaned out some of the mold in my back pantry, LOL) - I think this method removes a lot of that and puts it back into the CDS, where it has value.

I'm just looking (over time) for consistency of dose.

Steve wrote:

There's a lot of stored energy in this stuff.

PS you are creating pressure in the gas chamber or it would not bubble thru the water.

Yes indeed
I was also about to suggest to wear eye goggles for protection.

But please, stay safe, or you (and all of us!) could end up like this!

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