TOPIC:

Jim Humble responds to Sarah Cain, now Sarah C. Corriher's "debate" article on HealthWyze:
"The Debate between HealthWyze.org and Jim Humble about whether M.M.S. is a Fraud":
healthwyze.org/index.php/component/content/article/460-the-debate-between-healthwyzeorg-and-jim-humble-about-whether-mms-is-a-fraud.html


Sarah Cain Corriher of HealthWyze.org (HealthWyze) writes:

Introduction

On the 30th of July, I browsed through my e-mail messages to make a startling discovery. We had received a message from none other than Jim "MMS" Humble. After a brief moment of eye rubbing, to ensure that I had not been hallucinating, I eagerly read his message and then shared it with Thomas. Humble was upset about the unflattering findings that our research uncovered about his cash cow, which I chronicled in the article, Another Fraud Of Alternative Medicine: M.M.S ..

His message thusly began:

"Thomas and Sarah Cain Corriher,

In looking this site over I find quite a lot of useful information. Thus I wondered if you might be interested in opening a dialogue concerning what I am doing since there is a lot of inaccuracies in you information about my stuff, MMS, that is if you know who I am.
I have no animosity towards those of you who talk as you do. Possibly we could have an amiable dialogue.
up to you

Jim Humble"


Thomas replied with:

"Mr. Humble,

Yes, we did plenty of research into M.M.S., so we are familiar with you. There are two possibilities that I see here: 1. You really believe in what you are doing or 2. you have real guts. It is possibly both.

We take our work very seriously. Seeking the truth is one of our highest objectives: just behind 'first do no harm'. We would never print anything that we were not absolutely certain was true. Not only are there moral issues at play; but moreover, our credibility is always on the line.
If you would like a chance to debate us, in order to demonstrate that we have been wrong, then I suggest we do it out in the open. Let's not debate privately in the shadows, because complete openness and honesty are principals that we value, and because this issue has the potential to have a massive impact on the lives of our readers. We normally would not make such an offer to someone who we so strongly feel is harming people, but I get the overwhelming impression that you sincerely believe in what you are doing. Your noble intentions have earned you some karma in my opinion.

If an open and public debate seems agreeable to you, then we will need to agree to some basic rules, like how long our debate should last, and how long the replies may be. I will do no editing on your replies, unless you want me to. Perhaps I could use a picture of us and a picture of you at the top, if that's okay. Readers really like that sort of personal touch, and it draws them into the story.

-- Thomas Corriher"


Jim Humble accepted the challenge, so here we are with the debate for all to see. We play no games and have very few secrets here. Unfortunately, Mr. Humble did not do the same. Immediately after accepting our challenge, we suddenly and coincidentally began getting flooded with pro-MMS e-mails and article comments from people pretending to be concerned average Joes and regular readers of The Health Wyze Report. Mr. Humble and his sock puppet partners apparently believe that we are as naïve as M.M.S. customers are, despite the work that we have already done in exposing him. This MMS brigade has flooded countless online forums with deceptive astroturf messages in an attempt to convince everyone that M.M.S. is a legitimate medicine, and that people all over the world are using it safely every day to cure any and every ailment. Some of these posts even claim that it is doctor recommended by phantom doctors who do not seem to exist, even though it is not approved for human consumption (much less medicine) in any country in the world. Until we began getting such messages recently, a part of me wanted to believe that he meant well, and might actually conduct himself in an honorable manner. Further aggravation was caused by the fact that I have a personal problem with anyone who makes a habit of insulting our intelligence; especially concerning those who have not the intellectual resources to do it. Yes, that's a personal problem, and now all of you know that it is one of my buttons.

Jim Humble responds:
If the reader will note above I asked Thomas if we could have an amiable dialogue and maybe that is so. But can you conceive why all of a sudden he would begin to accuse me of false pro-MMS emails. He has no evidence that any of those emails were false. His saying that they were false doesn’t make them false. He gives no indication or evidence as to their being false. Why wouldn’t he show how at least one of them was false? Actually those emails resulted from the first article that HealthWyze printed telling how stupid my MMS was. Not only did I have nothing to do with them, I didn’t even know about them until HealthWyze mentioned them


HealthWyze:
I suppose that we should have expected the behavior that he demonstrated from his well-known reputation as a con artist;

Jim Humble responds:
Sarah has not shown any evidence that I am a well-known con.


HealthWyze:
but whenever someone writes that he wants to begin a peaceful and friendly relationship, then a part of me really wants to believe it. I want people to be good and to do the right things, and it breaks my heart that it is so rare. In regard to Humble's infamous reputation, just look him up on the Internet for yourself. Readers will notice that he, and his business partners, are all over flooding forums with dishonest astroturf messages in an attempt to convince us that M.M.S. is legitimate medicine. The number of messages from people clearly hiding their identities and their exaggerated claims grow every time that we look.

Jim Humble responds:
Next, in the first place, I couldn’t find any messages in which people were trying to hide their identities. Secondly, normally one tries to give a person the benefit of a doubt instead of instantly calling them a liar. Is she that intelligent that she can instantly determine that someone is lying just because people are claimed to have been cured? Does it make sense to just assume someone is wrong just because they are claiming a cure? If they are right you have then denied many people the cure for themselves. None of those claimed cures have been check out, because if they had Thomas or Sarah would have told you about the one they checked. NOW WAIT A MINUTE, SHE SAYS COUNTLESS DECEPTIVE MESSAGES HAVE FLOODED ONLINE FORUMS. Sarah just continues to write, not offering any kind of evidence.


HealthWyze:
The usual pattern is that you don't need anything except M.M.S., because it does everything from cancer to AIDS, and it even makes a person stronger than Popeye.

Jim Humble responds:
No strength claims have been given.


HealthWyze:
The M.M.S. claims are flabbergasting, but they barely compare to Humble's claims about himself.
Did you know that Humble is single-handedly wiping out malaria in Africa? All the Africans had to do was drink his bleach-like 'miracle' solution, and suddenly their malaria symptoms were not so noticeable anymore.

Jim Humble responds:
No I didn’t say that, I said their symptoms were gone in four hours.


HealthWyze:
Isn't that like hitting oneself on the toe with a hammer in order to forget a tooth ache? Now that's what we call 'medical progress' at HealthWyze.

Jim Humble responds:
Here again Sarah uses her standard sarcastic, exaggerated retort.


HealthWyze:
We are still waiting for the proof of Humble's 'miracles', but that data is just too suppressed to ever get out; according to Humble, that is.

Jim Humble responds:
Proof, proof? I discovered it, I spent a year developing it, carried it to Africa and treated people there, I spent 14 years working with it and helping people, and now, on top of that I am supposed to prove it to HealthWyze. Does Sarah want me to spoon feed it to her also? If I had the million dollars to do it with, I probably would get the proof, too. Meanwhile instead of checking it out Sarah decides I should prove it on top of everything else. I sort of thought if I found this miracle cure, and then I treated a few thousand people, that if I then came and told someone that they would at least check it out, but no, all I get is sarcasm with hate.


HealthWyze:
No Convenient, isn't it? In the meantime, we'll just have to bank on Humble's integrity.

Jim Humble responds:
Let’s see now, I never mentioned that the data was suppressed. However I did keep 600 phone numbers of people in Africa cured of HIV. Anyone is welcome to come here and use any one or all of these numbers to verify that these people are well. I can’t verify it for you, you wouldn’t believe me.


HealthWyze:
Believe it or not, that's not all that Humble has accomplished. According to one of his marketing sites, "Jim" is a former aerospace engineer. We figure he builds full scale space shuttles in his back yard, but that's not all! He also helped the moon missions by designing the lunar rovers. This just the beginning of Jim's glory. He helped design the first atomic bombs too, so he was likely personal friends with Albert Einstein. I must wonder if he constantly insulted Einstein's intelligence too. He also made the first satellite remote control digital logic circuits at Huges Aerospace Corp., and then he innovated analog electronics too, by documenting how forgone vacuum tube based computers work. He did that last task for the less gifted, little people.

Jim Humble responds:
Your hateful sarcasm isn’t really necessary. It doesn’t add to the conversation. It’s calculated to make me feel bad because there is never any answer to these kinds of lies. Do you see? I say that I worked setting up a-bomb tests at the Nevada Mercury testing range, and she says I helped design the first a-bombs. I did not claim any of this. Her sarcasm is all lies.


HealthWyze:
On the topic of his MMS websites, there are some unique patterns to them. All of them pretend to be made by independent 3rd parties, yet virtually all of them are hosted with Bluehost. That's just a coincidence, of course. If that were not enough of a coincidence, then how about the fact that each of these sites hides the person who registered their DNS (dot.com name) by using the anonymous Domains By Proxy service? Indeed, the 'Miracle Mineral Solution' web sites' network 'whois' (Who Is ....) information is entirely unavailable for any of the main MMS sites, because all of their registrations are being hidden via Domains By Proxy. A person could get the impression that all those "independent" sites were produced, and paid for by a single person, who is trying to hide his identity.

Jim Humble responds:
Any reason why I shouldn’t have privacy? Read my sites. Who cares if the domain is hidden? She doesn’t give any reason why they should not be hidden. I hide them as hackers keep trying to do me harm.


HealthWyze:
When he's not building spacecraft for N.A.S.A., one of Humble's favorite hobbies is Photo Shop editing photographs to make it appear as if he has done things that he has not really done, or been to places that he has not really been. Closely inspect these forgeries from his sites.



In these photos, he's playing doctor again, and he is even sporting improperly fitting lab coats. Notice the glow around the guy's head in the yellow shirt, and around the two ladies' heads on the right? That isn't The Force we're seeing. These are remnants of cut and paste operations from photo editing software. Jim may be the world's best aeronautical engineer, computer engineer, and atomic weapons expert, but his Photo Shop skills leave much to be desired. Click on the right image to get a better view of Jim's lackluster photo fabrications. Less informed people might get the impression that Jim is not a completely honest person, but of course, we know that these photos actually show him saving Africa from malaria.

Jim Humble responds:
I did in fact put white around these people’s heads as their hair was becoming a part of the background. So what? What does that prove? Plenty of people edit their photographs. That’s what they sell the Photoshop computer program for, to edit photographs. Unfortunately the camera I had was a poor camera. I find nothing wrong in improving a picture for publication in a book.

(note by ix: There is on youtube a video interview with Jim from that very place in Africa, as well as a video of Jim and the man in the photo above , where they are having a conversation about MMS. More photos of Jim in Africa (Uganda and Malawi) available here and here .)


HealthWyze:
Anyway, Thomas specified the rules of my debate with Humble. The rules specified a 500 word limit for each side's replies, and a single argument per day, which was to last for a period of 2 weeks. Of course, Mr. Humble did not abide by the rules. He pretended like he was too confused to understand our previously agreed upon rules of conduct, once he began sending us his tirades. Considering his supposed past intellectual accomplishments, we found his sudden confusion to be rather intriguing, and it is what we would expect from a sociopathic manipulator. We have seen Humble's type of arrogance before, and we studied Humble's modus operandi enough to anticipate that he would flood us with overwhelmingly lengthy, circular arguments, in an attempt to wear us down. The confirmation of our predictions about him told us that Mr. Humble had no comprehension whatsoever of what, or who he was up against. We were okay with that. He was welcome to make a noose and insert his head inside. So be it.

Jim Humble responds:
Let’s see, they knew what I would do, and they knew I would attempt to wear them down, and that I had no comprehension of what or who I was up against. That just smacks slightly, to me, of arrogance. I have hundreds of testimonies of people cured from cancer and dozens of other diseases, but Thomas and his partner won’t consider them. They know that they are right and they know I am wrong and they simply won’t accept any evidence and even if I did show them, they wouldn’t accept them as they have already refused to listen to dozens of people who have emailed them. Without checking a single one, they know that they are all lies. Doesn’t that sound like arrogance to you?


HealthWyze:
Answer 1
Thank you for not getting "too technical" for our feeble minds. We appreciate your concern for us.
Mr. Humble, it has been you who has been intentionally blurring and confusing the lines between the different compounds that chlorine can form. On one hand, you claim MMS is as harmless as salt, while on the other hand, you speak of how powerfully reactive the chlorine is, which supposedly enables it to "kill everything". By the way, we actually agree on that last part. So which is it? Is the chlorine neutralized, so your customers are buying glorified table salt, or is it the powerful reactive chlorine that is well known for its toxicity? Either way, it's called "fraud". You cannot have it both ways, but nice try.

Jim Humble responds:
Pretty bad, ‘cause you are not getting close to what I said. You claim I said something I didn’t and then walk off like there is absolute truth in your statement when it is absolute false. Talk about arrogance, this is it. What I stated was that chlorine kills from chlorination which is a process that oxidizes everything in its path that can be oxidized. I then pointed out that CHLORINE DIOXIDE IS DIFFERENT. It is a well-known fact throughout the industry that chlorine dioxide does not furnish chlorine. It is well known that chlorine dioxide is a selective oxidizer. You cannot prove your point by sarcastic lying.


HealthWyze:
Just so you know, table salt is not harmless either, as I'm sure a great world-changing engineer like yourself knows. The only salt that is almost harmless is sea salt, because it contains minerals that counteract the toxic effects of the chloride. Table salt is well known for its toxic effects, so even if your safety claims were true, you would still be arguing from an eroded position.

Jim Humble responds:
No, table salt is not known for its toxic effects any more than sea salt. That’s your opinion like everything else you have said here. I give facts and chemistry and you give opinions, covered in sarcasm.


HealthWyze:
You also recommend M.M.S. for people with heart disease and high blood pressure, so if your product is safe "like salt", then you are part of their health problems.

Jim Humble responds:
Instead of checking the actual chemistry you have chosen to ignore it all and go with what is simply sarcastic lies.


HealthWyze:
As far as its safety, first let us state that your chlorine dioxide is identical to that used for pool decontaminations, and the effects of intentionally consuming it are well known.

Jim Humble responds:
No, it’s not well known. No one in the world has ever done any testing concerning the ingestion of chlorine dioxide in the same amounts that we ingest table salt. Please, please, stop and think for a minute. Every year in the US more than 900 thousand people die after taking one or more substances approved by the FDA. Be careful how you accept their word.


HealthWyze:
For one thing, it is an E.P.A. registered pesticide. According to the E.P.A. , "Chlorine dioxide is an antimicrobial pesticide recognized for its disinfectant properties since the early 1900s.

Jim Humble responds:
That’s correct and it has also been known for its ability to be selective in which microorganisms it kills since the 1920’s. You keep mentioning the FDA. You might mention that the FDA has approved the use of chlorine dioxide for treating vegetables and meat before it goes to market without washing it off. That should give you an idea of how poisonous the FDA thinks it is.


HealthWyze:
Chlorine dioxide kills microorganisms by disrupting transport of nutrients across the cell wall."
We already looked it up, and that's why we wrote the original article . The burden of proof is upon you to prove us wrong, if you can.
There is no chlorine dioxide in stabilized oxygen. There is a small amount of table salt inside it. Nice try, but we're well-versed in your slight-of-hand tricks.

Jim Humble responds:
This is beyond belief. Stabilized oxygen is made of 3.5% sodium chlorite and just lately several other formulas have come on the market of 5%, 7% and one is even 10% sodium chlorite, with the balance of the formula just water. For a hundred years sodium chlorite has been the most important way of producing chlorine dioxide in the world. That proves you have done no research except try to make me look bad. That is the most important piece of information concerning sodium chlorite and chlorine dioxide that you can learn. It’s standard knowledge. Ask any real chemist.


HealthWyze:
I'm standing here with Thomas' electronics multimeter, with its probes inside some hydrogen peroxide, and frankly, I'm just not getting any voltage reading from it. Should we recalibrate the meter? We are a little slow, after all. Seriously, we can talk about your atomic theories all you want, and go into as many circles with those as you want, but the fact that matters is that the effects of your product upon the human body are already well known, and the electrons really don't care. Let's stick with the real issues here, and you can impress us with your fancy-smancy nuclear knowledge later.

Jim Humble responds:
Again, trying to read the oxidation potential of hydrogen peroxide with a multimeter simply shows you are ignorant or lying as you should know that is not the way it is done.


Round 2

Jim Humble writes:

In the criticism of MMS the writer continues to confuse the technologies of chlorine and chlorine dioxide not realizing that there is a life and death difference in the two technologies. So let me use the same heading on my article as is used in a section of the Critical article on MMS.

The effects of Chlorine on the Body.

In reading the HealthWyze write up concerning this subject I notice that the problems concerning ingestion of chlorine seemed to be pretty much according to the research of the literature that I also found. Chlorine is an oxidizer and in order to destroy most any compound found in the body, it must in the process of oxidation combine with that compound forming a totally new compound and these new compounds are often carcinogenic in nature. This kind of oxidation is known as chlorination. This is one of the main reasons that most new water purification plants employ chlorine dioxide. It does not combine with the item being oxidized, but rather it steals the electrons that hold the item being oxidized together. With the electrons being removed the item, pathogen or heavy metal or other poison, flies apart into its compounds which can be neutral or a poison. The electrons then change the chlorine dioxide components into a chloride which is the basis of table salt, sodium chloride. There is no chlorine dioxide in Clorox or any of the chlorine bleaches, only chlorine.

You may remember in my last article I mentioned that chlorine dioxide actually has no chlorine available at any time during the chemical oxidation cycle and that includes the degeneration cycle into chloride. The chemical oxidation cycle with any pathogen and chlorine dioxide consists of the chlorine dioxide stealing 5 electrons from the cell walls of the pathogen. The sequence goes like this. First a single electron is drawn off of the cell wall and onto the chlorine dioxide ion changing it to a sodium chlorite ion, but that only lasts for a millisecond or two. Then the newly formed sodium chlorite ion exerts a much heavier attraction and thus 4 more electrons are instantly drawn off. No other ion in pathogen chemistry has this unique sequence. The chlorine dioxide doesn’t have the power until it converts to a chlorite and then it blows a hole in the side of the pathogen and thus killing it.

In the case of chlorine dioxide there are a number of conditions that the pathogen must meet in order to be destroyed. The most important condition is the ORP (Oxidation Reduction Potential) voltage of the cell walls of the pathogen. It must match the voltage of the chlorine dioxide in the proper way to be destroyed. Chlorine kills (oxidizes) everything in its path, but as mentioned above, by chlorination, but chlorine dioxide is very selective. It does not combine; it destroys by disassembling the biological components of the cell walls of the pathogen by removing the electrons that hold it together.... [HealthWyze "Word count rule" exceeded]


HealthWyze:
Stealing electrons? That is some bad, bad, naughty chlorine.

Maybe we could get back on topic now. We answered most of this in our previous rebuttal. All of your irrelevant atomic theory smoke screens will continue to get ignored. You may discuss those at a physics or chemistry site. Perhaps they'll even be impressed. We're not. We're concerned only with the health implications of M.M.S., and your attempts to distract our readers away from that topic will fail. Why be insulting. It really doesn’t help what you are saying.
We agree that chlorine kills everything in its path, and so does chlorine dioxide. There is nothing "selective" about either. When your product is used as an E.P.A. registered pesticide, for instance, it does not merely kill the bad pathogens inside termites. It kills them.

Jim Humble responds:
Not really, go on the internet and put into any search engine the words “Selective chlorine dioxide.” You will find thousands of companies who talk about using chlorine dioxide because IT IS SELECTIVE. And some of them will explain the reason that it is selective.


HealthWyze:
All of them. A poison in small doses is still a poison, regardless of whatever the electrons are doing. It is also worth noting that we, as humans, have cell walls too, so chlorine is also bad for us.

Jim Humble responds:
It depends upon the oxidation potential of the cell walls. Chlorine dixoide has the lowest oxidation potential of all oxidizers and the oxidation potential is not strong enough to hurt body cells.


HealthWyze:
What's worse is those scientific studies, like the one below .

Meggs et al. (1996) examined 13 individuals (1 man and 12 women) 5 years after they were occupationally exposed to chlorine dioxide from a leak in a water purification system pipe. The long-term effects of the accident included development of sensitivity to respiratory irritants (13 subjects), disability with loss of employment (11 subjects), and chronic fatigue (11 subjects). Nasal abnormalities (including injection, telangectasia, paleness, cobblestoning, edema, and thick mucus) were found in all 13 individuals. Nasal biopsies taken from the subjects revealed chronic inflammation, with lymphocytes and plasma cells present within the lamina propria in 11 of the 13 subjects; the inflammation was graded as mild in 2 subjects, moderate in 8 subjects, and severe in 1 subject.

Jim Humble responds:
So let me quote what that report actually said at the end of the report concerning the control subjects that did not receive chlorine gas from the pipes. I quote, “the difference was not statistically significant.” ALSO I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT THIS IS A REPORT ABOUT CHLORINE DIOXIDE GAS AND MMS IS A LIQUID TAKEN BY THE MOUTH. He hoped to sneak that by you. But the fact is, taking chlorine into your lungs as a gas as opposed to drinking it in a .016% solution is quite different. You can learn from accidents, but accidents are not scientific studies.


HealthWyze:
I really liked this statement, "The chlorine dioxide doesn’t have the power until it converts to a chlorite and then it blows a hole in the side of the pathogen and thus killing it." Wow, that must be impressive. Could you give us a peer-reviewed, 3rd party, independent study that proves this is exactly what your product does, while not harming human tissues and blood? I mean, I'm sure your contentions are backed with credible scientific evidence, after all. Otherwise, you would just be pulling this stuff out of your butt.

Jim Humble responds:
Well, of course I can. Go to google and again put in “selective chlorine dioxide” and read the EPA Article and others. Including the EPA article, there are a number of sites that explain this chemical reaction of chlorine dioxide. Or go to any college and talk to the chemistry professor.


HealthWyze:
You actually state in one of your movies that your product kills only the weaker cancer cells, which would put your formula in the same category as chemotherapy; if this were indeed true. Didn't you also claim that your product would not harm human tissues (like chemotherapy does)? Aren't the cancer tumors made from human tissues? Oh, I forgot: it's "selective". I suppose the moral here is to never underestimate the intelligence of chlorine, at least not atomically, and always underestimate the intelligence of the Health Wyze Report Staff.

Jim Humble responds:
I suppose the moral here is that you can be as belligerent and insulting as you want and there will always be someone to think you are smart. And the guy who is trying to help is always the dummy.


Round 3

Jim Humble writes:
It would seem only fair that someone being sarcastically critical of someone else's work should at least know their chemistry so that they can adequately explain the mistakes that persons is making. So let me correct their writing about how pathogens are killed so that later you the reader will be able to understand what really happens to diseases if you should take a drink of MMS.

My critic says, "Bleach kills the pathogens by poisoning them, and then corroding them." But you see that really isn't the chemical process at all. The chlorine in the bleach actually attracts the electrons that hold the pathogen together and the pathogen and chlorine mix together to form a new compound and the pathogen is killed in the process of forming a compound with the chlorine. But although wrong, that really isn't important to us as MMS uses chlorine dioxide and no chlorine is available. Chlorine dioxide kills in a different way. As I already explained the chlorine dioxide removes the electrons that hold the pathogen together and it flies apart or at least part of it does.

Then the critical writer asks for a list of bleach-resistant good bacteria, and then he says we know that they do not exist and, of course, I have to agree. But then again I am not talking about bleach and chlorine. I am talking about chlorine dioxide a substance as different from chlorine as is table salt.

The next paragraph the critical writer mixes chlorine bleach and sterilization and chlorine dioxide sterilization so thoroughly together that I cannot explain what he is saying. They are not the same thing. They are not used in industry for the same thing except on occasion Yes, chlorine is poisonous to most everything, but there is no chlorine in chlorine dioxide. This is confusing because it has that same word in it "chlorine," but a chemist quickly comes to understand that they are not the same. If they were the same, then table salt would kill you.

So last year 975 thousand people in the US died after taking a dose of one drug or the other ALL OF WHICH WERE FDA APPROVED. During that same time more than one million people used MMS and not a single one died and many reported getting better quickly. More than 5 million people have downloaded my free MMS book. I have personally given more than 5000 sick people drinks of MMS. Most of them became well in a few hours. I am just trying to make Earth a better place to live.


HealthWyze:
We really don't care about your Chemistry 101 homework. Likewise, none of our readers care whether you believe that an electron moves this way, or that. Some people believe gremlins are under their beds, but that has nothing to do with the health effects of chlorine dioxide, or the price of eggs in China.

As far as nobody dying from M.M.S., perhaps you should review the news articles at: www.smh.com.au/national/death-in-paradise-20100108-lyxv.html and www.smh.com.au/national/deadly-chemical-being-sold-as-miracle-cure-20100108-lyvl.html

Jim Humble responds:
NO, again there are only accusations on these sites, no proof is offered in any way.


HealthWyze:
You already knew about Silvia's death, because you publicly attacked her grieving husband for telling the press about the horrific details of her death.

Jim Humble responds:
The final findings by the autopsy was that there was no evidence that chorine dioxide could have caused the death. The FDA and critics all over the world has gotten a lot of mileage out of this incident, but they all had to back off when the final results were in.


HealthWyze:
Most people won't immediately die from M.M.S., but from long term secondary conditions such as cancers, which will be difficult to trace to their real causes. It usually takes a large amount to die quickly, so most M.M.S. deaths will be conveniently blamed elsewhere.
O.S.H.A. has this to report about chlorine dioxide:

"Chlorine dioxide is a very unstable material even at room temperatures and will explode on impact, when exposed to sparks or sunlight, or when heated rapidly to degrees C (212 degrees F). Airborne concentrations greater than 10 percent may explode... Chlorine dioxide reacts with water or steam to form toxic and corrosive fumes of hydrochloric acid... Chlorine dioxide is a severe respiratory and eye irritant in experimental animals... Chlorine dioxide dissolves in water to produce chlorate and chlorite ions. Chlorite has been shown to produce methemoglobin in rats and cats"

Methemoglobin, a particular type of hemoglobin is useless for carrying oxygen to tissues. Since hemoglobin is the key carrier of oxygen in the blood, its wholesale replacement by methemoglobin can cause cyanosis (a slate gray-blueness) due to suffocation.

The National Institutes of Health reported, "The results indicated that CIO2 may have central neurotoxic potential." (May?)
One of the material data sheets from a chlorine dioxide manufacturer states that chloride dioxide is:

"CORROSIVE to the eyes and skin. Can cause damage to vegetation. Inhalation: Severe respiratory irritant. May cause bronchospasm and pulmonary edema, which may be delayed in onset. May also cause severe headaches. All symptoms may be delayed and long lasting. Long term exposure may cause chronic bronchitis. An LC50 value of 500 ppm/15m3 (rat) is quoted in the literature. Skin Absorption: May be absorbed, causing tissue and blood cell damage. Ingestion: Not applicable except for solutions, in which case the symptoms would be expected to parallel those for inhalation. Hazardous Combustion Products: Chlorine, oxygen, and hydrochloric acid."

Pay attention to: "Ingestion: Not applicable except for solutions, in which case the symptoms would be expected to parallel those for inhalation." Thus, interested parties should investigate the identical inhalation results. (Your own work says its gas is released during product preparation.)

Jim Humble responds:
YES, AND NO REPORTS OF DAMAGE.


HealthWyze:
We hope those electrons don't mind.

Jim Humble responds:
I don’t answer all those reports as they all talk about chlorine and chlorine dioxide that is thousands of time stronger than MMS when it is used to heal people. Any high school chemistry course has somewhere at the beginning of the course said that all chemicals in the world are poisonous in large amounts. So what, salt will kill you in large amounts, and so will peanut butter. For anyone who doesn’t understand percentage, 1% is 1/100th. Chlorine dioxide is used in doses at .016%. That is less than 1/90th of 1 percent. So if you took a glass of water and made it into a 1% solution of chlorine dioxide by putting approximately 1 teaspoon of chlorine dioxide in it and then you divided the solution in that glass into 90 parts and put one of those parts in a ½ glass of water you would just barely be able to taste it and it won’t hurt you. Thousands of people have put it into their eyes with no problem and everyone who comes to my classes does just that, they put it into their eyes, just for the purpose of experiencing how dilute it really is and to also clean their eyes. My students also take this every hour all day just to see that it won’t hurt you. So far from around the world lots of eye infections handled, but no harm so far to eyes or anything else.


Closing Arguments .

Jim Humble writes:

Instead of believing you guys are chemists and especially you Sarah, you should spend a little money with a professor of chemistry at a university. You guys are not chemists. You haven't a slightest clue as to the facts here. You are sailing along in la-la land. You should have read that paper I suggested.

More than 5 million people have downloaded my basic free book. My total book is printed in 15 different languages. I have done lectures to hundreds of people all over Europe and other parts of the world with many actual chemists in the Audiences. Again you don't have a clue as to the chemistry. I have personally treated 5000 people and another 5000 over the internet all free of charge. More than a hundred thousand malaria victims were treated by people I trained and they were OK in less than 4 hours. Normally 400 out of that many would have died, but there were no deaths. I have seen more people cured of more diseases than any other person on Earth, yet you guys are denying thousands of people the chance to overcome their suffering or to live a longer healthier life.

Please tell me why would I do this? I don't sell MMS. Why would I spend the time in the jungle? Can you possibly believe that I just want to stand up in front of people and lie to them for no reason?

I am sorry. I was merely trying to help. All I have gotten out of you is sarcasm and hate. I am going to have to let you pour that out on someone else as I am not going to even bother reading the rest of your rebuttal. The last paragraph I have read is where you have laughingly tried to measure the oxidation voltage of hydrogen peroxide (Round 1). That is so dumb I can't believe you expert chemists could possibly prepare the formula for an apple pie. You all have less knowledge of chemistry than a 6th grader and you then call me names with sarcasm and hate. Frankly I don't see why you don't apply for a nice job at the FDA as you all have the same mentality. Here is a guy trying to help mankind so let’s just see if we can make him look like shit. And you can, for a little while, then you will find that you were wrong about everything. I offered to help you and you just treated me worse than a cow.

I must not understand me. Maybe you can help. Why am I spending 18 hours a day doing all this for no income for the last 14 years? People didn't listen at all for the first 10 years, just the last 4 years. I spent all my retirement money and sold everything I own and gave my house trailer away to one of those homeless girls... [HealthWyze "Word count rule" exceeded]


HealthWyze:
Firstly, chemistry is not the solution to the diseases that plague our society. It's the cause.
Your success statistics are only available from you: an uncredible and self-serving source of information. We have given you chance after chance to provide real evidence that M.M.S. has some benefit, and that it is indeed safer than the bleach that it is. With thousands of purported 'miracle' cures worldwide, we would expect for at least one credible, independent, verifiable, 3rd party somewhere to actually document it.

Jim Humble responds:
There are plenty of 3rd parties that have proven it. Hundreds of people sent you emails and you simply disregarded them saying that I wrote them, or that they were lying.


HealthWyze:
If we ever decide to begin a business of poisoning already sick people (for instance with bleach), then we'll accept your advice about getting proper chemistry degrees. Until then, we'll make due with our inferior educations and intellects.

Jim Humble responds:
Yes, well you are not doing too good so far. You failed to investigate a single email that was sent to you. You don’t understand MMS or the chemistry of chlorine dioxide. You are the ones that hurt people and you know that.


HealthWyze:
Unlike yourself, real saints do not boast about their own greatness, stroke themselves publicly, or falsify information. You're far from the altruistic, selfless saint that you have consistently paraded yourself as being. It is unnecessary for truly righteous people to tell us of their greatness, and real saints have no desire to brag about themselves. You are hurting people, and you have willfully chosen to continue hurting people indefinitely. That is the opposite of saintly, as far as we are concerned.

Jim Humble responds:
That is so far as you are concerned. I am just saying what happened and what I did. I treated thousands and the idea that I should not mention it is stupid. If I were going according to your theory I would never be able to tell my story. How do you think that goes? You get to say all these bad things about me and I must shut up and say nothing good. Well that sounds about the same as the rest of your logic.


HealthWyze:
Your allegation of not making money from your M.M.S. scam is cunning. You know that the one thing that we cannot verify is your financial records, and therefore we cannot prove that you are lying about this. Be aware that this will quickly change if you are ever prosecuted in the U.S. for your crimes, because the incriminating evidence would become public records. You can count on us to be one of the first to publish it. We noticed you moved to Mexico, which is a smart move for staying out of prison. I likewise noticed that you said elsewhere , "I live in Mexico, just in case." Would a saint cowardly flee to another country, and would he even have a reason to?

Jim Humble responds:
Yes, you forget that most all of the other really big advancements of mankind were done by people who were attacked and some were even killed. And most often they were attacked by people like you.


HealthWyze:
Your personality closely matches a sociopathic boyfriend from when I was age 14. He was a convict and a pedophile in his middle thirties. This boyfriend followed the familiar sociopathic pattern of first reigning me in with fantastic fabrications about his history that made him appear heroic and saintly. Later, when he felt that his position and power had diminished somewhat, he began beating my spirit down by telling me about how inferior I was morally, and about how intellectually crippled I was. We know people like that, don't we, Mr. Humble? Finally, when all else failed, and he had become really desperate from his manipulation failures, he appealed to my conscience with guilt games about how I was hurting a modern day messiah. Sounds really familiar, doesn't it?
You are too arrogant to realize that you were beaten long ago, Mr. Humble, and you're too prideful to ever admit that we read you like a book from the very beginning. I hope this stands as a testament of your modus operandi, so that others will not be taken in by your slick games in the future.

Jim Humble responds:
Wow, I doubt that I was beaten, why don’t you ask for a vote as to who won the debate.


HealthWyze:
Mr. Humble, you are in ours and many others' opinion, an inherently evil man.

Jim Humble responds:
Yes, I suppose you have that opinion, but not many and I have thousands that are on my side. Let me say this, of you and me, I’d say that you are the most evil as you haven’t tested MMS, or checked any of the theories with competent chemists, and you say you have researched it, but that is a total untruth, so even if I was all wrong, the fact that you are doing this when it just might work, means that you are willing to allow people to die because they believe you. That, my friends, is evil to the limit and you, no doubt, are the ones who are getting money for making MMS look bad. If it were any other reason you wouldn’t lie so much. It is so true that one usually finds that what his critics is complaining about is what they are usually doing themselves.


HealthWyze:
May we call you "Jim"?

Jim Humble responds:
And no, don’t call me Jim, call me ARCHBISHOP James Humble because that is who I am.



This was a response to Sarah Cain Corriher's "debate" article:
"The Debate between HealthWyze.org and Jim Humble about whether M.M.S. is a Fraud":
healthwyze.org/index.php/component/content/article/460-the-debate-between-healthwyzeorg-and-jim-humble-about-whether-mms-is-a-fraud.html

Jim:

You've helped to heal a lot of physical ailments - you will not help - "WILLFUL IGNORANCE" ( a common disability) - leave them on their journey (they won't go in circles forever)

I read this some time ago on their web site. I was shocked at the way they conducted themselves in that interview up until then i had found some useful stuff on their site but I have rarely visited it since. I responded to an article they put up regarding the use of magnets in healing, they said there was no evidence they helped and were calling anyone who seemed to say otherwise. I sent them a link to a peer reviewed clinical study by a university in the UK showing how they were useful in the treatment of arthritis, this was subsequently written up in the British Medical Journal. They never printed my reply, maybe there minds were already made up and maybe they don't like to look wrong after all they are serious journalists who do thorough research, so they claim.

Yes, they do seem to work from a "minds already made up" position. In reading this article, I was left with many more questions unanswered than answered - and all pretty much about HealthWyze and what they really are trying to accomplish on the web. This is one of the reasons I reposted the information about disinfo agents in another thread...

HealthWyze.org Contact Page Submission: MMS

Name: Deborah Frenette
Email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject: MMS
Phone:
Message: WE had used MMS for many years. I found that it finally rid my body of sinus infection. We used MMS enemas and found we had HUGE worms coming out. we had to use herbs and DE to kill the worms. But MMS identified them for us.

I am sorry to see that you are discouraging people from using MMS which is a real life saver.

I am writing this on my own accord and under my own violation. MMS will heal many ills of humankind.

Thank you