TOPIC:

Hey, eager to feed is good - not feeding is bad. His ability to stand is very encouraging - small steps!!

You're doing a great job!! and you're paying attention ( the flies) . Thanks for sharing.

My internet is playing up

I found out that Calvin IS on anti scouring meds, it says it replaces lost electrolytes and other stuff.

I have a feeling that the flies are attracted to his smell, not that he smells really bad ( i think he smells lovely overall) but when I spray the CDS on him it seems to confuse them. When I return there are always a few flies on him but no where near as many, they seemed to be swarming around him before the spray.

There is a sack of powdered milk formula that is made up to feed him, I suspect also that he could do with more of this. He wants to feed every time I visit which is usually every two hours. Is the shared opinion that if he wants to feed I should let him, even with his diarrhea? I just want to feed him all the time.

He is slightly perkier than before I started him on CDS but nothing really to write home about. I know it is only the third day but I am starting to think administering rectally maybe a good idea. With him already having diarrhea I cant tell how the dose I am giving is affecting him. I would normally watch out for the diarrhea and drop the dose. If he wasnt this bad I would be happier to go slower but its hard to tell the progress we are making if any. I tried to put him on his feet again but he couldn't do it

If anyone has an opinion on a feeding schedule that includes his scouring meds in a morning, doses of CDS orally and then his milk on top I would appreciate it. There may be something in the scouring powder that is cancelling out the CDS? I like the idea of administering the CDS rectally but the general opinion is to do 2 enemas with clean warm water first to clean up in there, and then put the same dose as you would orally in 2 - 4oz of water (amount of water for humans) and let the walls of the colon absorb most if not all of it. I just dont have any equipment for doing this procedure on a cow, I could squirt some diluted CDS in there no problem but wouldn't have the equipment to go about cleaning him out first? It just seems like a good way to administer if absorbtion through the stomach is 'possibly' not cutting it? If he didnt have so much diarrhea I would mix some MMS up to give orally as well.

Just got this quote from a website talking about electrolytes for calves : 'You can feed calves milk or replacer even if they have scours. They can still digest and get benefit from milk. Because the electrolytes can interfere with the digestion of milk, it's best to alternate milk feedings with electrolyte feedings.

Calvin is fed the anti scouring powder each morning at half eight, I think it is meant to be given 3 times a day but I will check packet. Taking this information into account, I am unsure where the CDS doses would fit in, he needs lost electrlytes upto 3 times daily, CDS every 2 hours and as much milk as I can fit around this........ oh dear!

Hmmmmm. I would probably feed him as often as he is willing! There is not much solids in milk so firming up may be a problem. But let him eat as much as he is willing would be my guess. Probably I would give the CDS first. If you have the time maybe wait 15 - 20 minutes or so and then feed him. If not, then go ahead and feed him anyway. He needs all the nourishment he can get. At this age was he on any hay or any solids food at all? If so, is he willing to take any if it is in reach?

Rectal may be a good idea. If you can't clean him out I would try it anyway. What is there to lose?

CDS is not gonna cause diarrhea, so don't let that part worry you.
It may be good to not do CDS when he receive the scouring powder but, most certainly, feed him if he will eat!

You may have to write out a schedule on paper so you can see and figure out how to works it all out. I have done this and is a big help to clear up a confusing schedule.

Just got some more info so am going to use that and your advice Horsefeathers, I might try CDS on an evening and into night and milk + electrlytes in day. I will write it all down as you suggest so I can figure it all out. From what I have read about scours it can be really serious and that he is wanting to feed and perking up are really good signs, I wish he would walk. Im going to get on this properly and sort out a schedule

'At the APC Calf Research Unit (and previously at the University of Tennessee), we generally look at
each calf twice daily for any sign of disease. When a calf begins to develop scours, we will begin
feeding 2 liters of commercial electrolytes at "lunch", which an additional feeding offered at
approximately 12:00 noon. We keep calves on milk replacer (fed at 8:00 a.m. and 4:30 p.m.). By
offering an additional feeding, calves will consume an extra 2 liters of fluid which is very important
when they're losing water. If calves are severely dehydrated, we will offer an additional feeding of
electrolytes at about 6:00 p.m. We also work closely with our vet to determine when to begin IV
electrolyte therapy if necessary. Because calves can lose large amounts of water, we don't hesitate to
offer an additional 4 liters of electrolytes per day to scouring calves. That's in addition to the 4 liters
of milk replacer and ad libitum water.'

PS he is surrounded by straw but isnt interested, the other calves his age are eating straw and cake. I wil try him with some but am going to concentrate on milk and fluids.

Sounds like you found some good info. I would probably try to give the CDS more often that just twice a day, however, I see the idea that you are going for with the feeding schedule you found from APC.

I don't know much about calves/cows, however; to me, straw is bedding, hay is food. Whatever the cakes are, can they be made to be suckled down as he is not into chewing his food at this point? Maybe Fourfingerz will chime in here again?!

Sorry I don't have any experience with hand raising calves. That's a dairy farming thing (farmer wants the milk) - I just leave mom and calf together nursing as she see's fit.

I wouldn't worry about cleaning him out rectally - just get some CDS into him and see what happens.

I would feed him as he's willing to take it - that's his fluids. Don't worry about solid foods yet.

I would separate the scours meds and oral CDS - or try and find the ingredients list. They through vitamin C in a lot of stuff (our horse minerals has it in there) Rectally it wouldn't be as important - I would think?

If this works out - you will be looking a stunned farmer I bet. Ask him his success rate for scours.

Oh I will give it him more than twice was just indicating what time of day not how often Just got back from vets, they really are nice, they were shut but I still managed to get a big syringe free of charge from him. Im going to try giving him his dose rectally this time, I will write up how it went when I get back. I will sit down and write a schedule which I will share with you. I plan to use the larger syringe to gently rinse him inside with body temperature water before I put the CDS in there.

The straw is bedding but the other little calves are eating it even though cake (pellets) are available. I will give him some hay or bashed up pellets to try after I have gotten lots of milk into him.

Speak soon

Thanks Fourfingerz you caught me just before I left to see him. I agree about the dairy farmer thing, it horrifies me how this all actually works, and they are a small farm (50 ish cows) I will take all your points on board

Ok back again and a bit of a failure but a lot learned. Fourfingerz I know you said not to bother with the flush but I did, I thought for the first time I would. I managed to get nearly 1/2 liter of luke warm water inside and then stopped, I didnt want to put too much in as I am inexperienced. I gave him a little massage and stood him up while supporting him, after ten seconds he emptied it all back out. That went no problem at all and I was confident this would be easy. Doing everything the same except with the CDS this time and I couldnt even get 20ml inside, he pushed it out every time. Im convinced its the temperature, as the flush was body temp and the CDS is fridge temp. I tryed to warm the syringe in my hands but he still wouldnt take it. Im convinced that if I mix the CDS and body temp water on site then wasting no time repeat the procedure it will work.

Do you guys agree about the temp? I think I would do the same if you put cold water up my bum!

If I waste no time when mixing will the CDS stay in solution in the warm water long enough for me to do this?